Hard-Wired Lighting Control Recommendation

[Kevin L]

Lutron combines conventional wiring with hard-wired control. That gives you an option to replace their switches with traditional ones if they go out of business. The installation is more complicated though with the matching high price tag. Wireless switches are not very reliable and also depend on proprietary technology. I know a lot of people who bought an old house and found that their "traditional wiring" does not work, cannot be repaired and the only option is to open up walls and replace it.

I personally like home-run systems. I think they are the future of home wiring. There are many companies that produce automated relays for such systems, and even if they all go out of business tomorrow you still have an option to replace the automated relay with a mechanical one and control it from traditional switch using original cat5 wiring. And the cost of home-run installation is on par or lower than of the traditional wiring (just think about all these gang boxes full of switches and a nightmare of multi-way install). And for the DIYer there is an extra perk: they can control all the relays from HAI or similar controller with relay outputs and without a need for a specialized lighting system.

+1

Certainly there are those that are scared by automation. But I can easily "unprogram" my LiteJet system easily and remove any scenes. Then, the Centralite keypads will simply control the loads like normal switches. I do run the risk of MCP (master control panel) failing, but that's pretty much the only item that's proprietary with LiteJet. I am considering buying a backup MCP (@ $1,000) just in case it ever fails and Centralite no longer stocks them or they are out of business. The rest of the panel are relays and the keypads are nothing special that couldn't be changed with another LV switch.

On the loads I didn't homerun, I've been installing Z-Wave switches/dimmers and JetStream keypads. Both of these can be easily replaced with standard items, and they work just fine for the local load without programming.

I built this house in 2006/2007 with plans to die there (hopefully in 30 years or so), and wasn't concerned with building for resale. If that changes, if I got a read the prospective buyer is a techie, I'll point out the system. If it's a non-techie, then there's no reason to get involved with the details. Either way, the lights will work.

BTW, Picta, welcome to CocoonTech, and thanks for contributing already!

Kevin

 

[tmbrown97]

While I agree that there's better ways to handle lots of light loads than banks of switches, I also like my system so familiar that anyone who walks into my house will barely notice anythign different.

That said, I have a 60+ device UPB setup because in this house, where the switches were wasn't adequate. I got tired of the routine of going to 2 different switch locations in the kitchen, then family room, then livng room, then by the back door - to turn off the lights to go upstairs completely ridiculous - so now I can press a single button from upstairs that shuts down the 1st floor... and I used UPB to reconfigure how I thought the switches should work, not how the builder or california code dictated.

 

[esabet]

I am a big fan of not having multiple gangs of wall switches throughout the home. .................................

That is also one of my primary reasons why I am going this route! I build rather larger homes (min. 3000+ sqft) and in some areas like the Foyer, I sometimes have two (I have had even more)set of 4 gang boxes. VERY UNSIGHTLY!!!

 

[esabet]

+1 on the above.

I think it is crazy talk to run a dedicated wiring system behind the drywall in your house. They will have you at their mercy forever, and if they go bankrupt you will really be hosed. I know someone who had Creston and sold the house becuase of it. $200 every time the system sneezed, $1000's when it actually got sick. He hated it, and I mean hated it. Not to mention the big time front end cost.

And you mentioned that it is new construction which you felt limited you to one of these systems. That as absolutely not true. First, you can just have the electricians do a totally normal install, then pull switches/outlets and replace with Insteon/UPB/Z-wave, or you can contract with an electrician who will put those in for you in the first place. On my new construction house, I let them do their thing, then pulled what I wanted to replace.

Lou Apo;
I must say many other dealers share your feeling about Creston and have advised me against it but then they are not a Creston dealer themselves so it makes me wonder!!!

But I have also read MANY downsides to solutions such as Insteon/UPB/Z-wave! For instance in a UPB setup people have found issues when they attempt to activate two switches simultaneously. I have also head stories where turning on the dishwasher suddenly turns lights on or off!!

That is why I am considering hard-wire solutions and think the Insteon/UPB/Z-wave are better fit for a retrofit application.

 

[gatchel]

I am also one who likes options. I would say to make sure there is a neutral in every box and got with a powerline / wireless system. There is something to be said for being able to temporarily put in a $3 switch to operate the light when the $60 + switch fails. I am also a DIY'er when it comes to lighting automation. Sorry I can't offer any more.

 

[apostolakisl]

Lou Apo;
I must say many other dealers share your feeling about Creston and have advised me against it but then they are not a Creston dealer themselves so it makes me wonder!!!

But I have also read MANY downsides to solutions such as Insteon/UPB/Z-wave! For instance in a UPB setup people have found issues when they attempt to activate two switches simultaneously. I have also head stories where turning on the dishwasher suddenly turns lights on or off!!

That is why I am considering hard-wire solutions and think the Insteon/UPB/Z-wave are better fit for a retrofit application.

I don't think you'll find UPB/Insteon/Z-wave doing something totally wacky like that, x-10 sure could. The worst I have had with my Insteon setup is a simple failure to respond. When it comes to mission critical stuff (like controlling valves and pumps and security), I have it hardwired to my Elk security. But a once in a blue moon light failure. . . ehhh, so what. Push the button again.

But here is one of the main points. This is a hobby for me. I would never buy a system that I get locked out of. Nothing bugs me more than a company that sells me something but never lets me own it. It would be like BMW putting a lock on the hood that only a BMW dealer had the key to. You wouldn't find me there.

 

[picta]

That is why I am considering hard-wire solutions and think the Insteon/UPB/Z-wave are better fit for a retrofit application.

So, back to your original question and given your decision to go hard-wired (which I would second), you may consider the following points when choosing the system:

1. Do you want a stand-alone lighting system, or you want it to be integrated with home automation (and if so, which controller do you have in mind)
2. How important is to you to have a backward-compatible installation that can be reverted to traditional wiring
3. What kind of post-installation support would you like, what are the pricing options and do you have such service readily available in your area
4. Do you want to have an option to program the system without dealer involvement (and offer it to your customers)
5. How important is the "look and feel" of the switches

Answering this questions may help you with your choice.

 

[esabet]

So, back to your original question and given your decision to go hard-wired (which I would second), you may consider the following points when choosing the system:

1. Do you want a stand-alone lighting system, or you want it to be integrated with home automation (and if so, which controller do you have in mind)
2. How important is to you to have a backward-compatible installation that can be reverted to traditional wiring
3. What kind of post-installation support would you like, what are the pricing options and do you have such service readily available in your area
4. Do you want to have an option to program the system without dealer involvement (and offer it to your customers)
5. How important is the "look and feel" of the switches

Answering this questions may help you with your choice.

Thank you picta. Let me try to answer your questions. But they are more difficult than they seem:

1. No, this will not be a stand-alone system. At this time I am considering between ClareControls and Elan G!
2. I do think backward compatibility is important but sometimes you have to choose between two evils!!!
3. I live in NY and there are many dealers of all sorts of solutions but I would also hate to be stuck with one dealer!!
4. It would be VERY nice if I had the option to program the system without dealer involvement.
5. The look and feel of the switches are very important since these home are, relatively speaking, high-end homes.

 

[picta]

Emil

I would ask which lighting systems those controllers can integrate with. Given a variety of controllers and systems in the market not all are compatible.
If reverse compatibility is important to you, then Lutron is the only system on your list that can be replaced by regular switches. The switches will require at least one gang for each controllable load, so you may have harder time to de-clutter the walls, or you'll be placing switches in non-standard locations which will decrease backward-compatibility.

I think that if you do not want wireless control, you should go with non-standard wiring and get all the benefits. The non-standard wiring systems usually also provide a manual override module, so you can control a light mechanically if the electronics fails. But it will be a service call and you want to make sure that there is a reasonable warranty on the product.

Vantage has the most versatility in style and components, but it is not based on traditional wiring. Ask their dealer if it provides a software to the non-dealers to allow reprogramming of the system on a high level (like button and scene programming at least). I know that such application is available for Centralite Elegance. This option will give your client a choice of either paying for additional reprogramming, or do it themselves.

 

[Westcojack]

IMHO if the system programming is done properly (easy-easy-easy for the homeowner to use), there is absolutely no reason for reverse compatability. In fact if you are worried about your car breaking down, do you have a spare horse at home?
Also, the Lutron system that allows replacement with regualr switches is a multigang Radio RA system or a multigang Homeworks4 system, not really the centralized system.
You may also be able to get the programming software for a Vantage system from the dealer. I believe that Vantage frowns upon this, but for high-techie home owners, it may not be a problem.
If you need any more particulars feel free to PM me.

 

[esabet]

IMHO if the system programming is done properly (easy-easy-easy for the homeowner to use), there is absolutely no reason for reverse compatability. In fact if you are worried about your car breaking down, do you have a spare horse at home?
Also, the Lutron system that allows replacement with regualr switches is a multigang Radio RA system or a multigang Homeworks4 system, not really the centralized system.
You may also be able to get the programming software for a Vantage system from the dealer. I believe that Vantage frowns upon this, but for high-techie home owners, it may not be a problem.
If you need any more particulars feel free to PM me.

I did some research on Vantage and I have to say that I really like it and seems to be the most straight forward of all the "hard-wired" systems I have looked at thus far. In fact I watched some of the more basic Training Videos and it "almost" (note the emphasis ) looks as if I could even do it myself with the help of couple of laborers to run the wires. But I wont go that far. I also VERY MUCH like the stylish wall keypads!! I am not sure if Elan G supports it but I know ClareControls does. So now the tricky part I guess would be to find a dealer for ClareControls that is also a Vantage dealer!! It does not get easy, does it?

 

[Del91574]

I would stay away from anything Elan for a project of this size....they've "restructured" their debt after declaring bankruptcy recently.

 

[Neurorad]

I disagree. Tremendous number of high end homes have home run lighting loads. Very common, in luxury homes. It's the only way to remove multiple gangs of switches, other than to put them in nearby closets.

Pick up the phone and call Westcojack. He can design your lighting systems, and the electricians can install it. At least, I bet it's a good solution. He'd be a good resource for integration, too.

 

[2blackbelt]

I used Centralite Elegance in a 9000 sq ft home and love it. Have had no problems and used my local electrician to wire it in. Bought the system from a local store, programmed it myself and am proud of it. I would recommend it to anybody. The only problem I have is when my kids, 11 & 8 have friends over they push the buttons too hard thinking its like a regular switch or something and have had a few buttons break. But other than that....its great.