Hardwired Lighting System Using Cat5

Sacedog

Active Member
I am getting ready to begin building, and will be pulling all of the LV wiring for the house after framing is done. I don't really want to spend the money on a HV hardwired lighting system, or have the wall-o-switches in the basement, and I would like to retain local control at all lighting locations. I have read a lot of posts regarding Cat5 wired systems, and wonder if they are any better than UPB. I thought I was sold on UPB, but want it to be as reliable as possible (without costing a fortune).

So, first question is, are there other Cat5 lighting systems out there besides I-Line and OnQ?


Do any of the Cat5 hardwired systems have drivers written for CQC (or possibly HL)?


Lastly, do the Cat5 lighting systems have better reliability than UPB?


Thanks for any input on this. I have most of my other decisions made, but am still wavering on lighting. It seems that people are pretty happy with UPB, but if I can increase reliability a bit more, with just running some additional Cat5, I would willingly do it.
 
Sacedog; You Seek the GRAIL!

None of the three protocols offered today ZWave, Insteon, and UPB, will offer the reliability of a hardwired system. The problem with a hardwired system is it is more expensive. People that have gone this route seem to think the expense was worth it with the reliability they attained.

There are a lot of posts in this forum where people have had success with ZWave, Insteon, and UPB (and even X-10), but NONE will admit 100 percent reliability.

If cost is a factor you could run the wiring needed for a hardwired system, but use one of the other protocols for the time being (since you are running the wiring yourself you would just be out the cost of the wire).
 
I am getting ready to begin building, and will be pulling all of the LV wiring for the house after framing is done. I don't really want to spend the money on a HV hardwired lighting system,

, but want it to be as reliable as possible (without costing a fortune).
Part of the problem with what you want to do is that most hardwired systems require Sparky to run all the lighting loads to a central location where the cabinets are located. Then the LV control lines run from the processor to the switch locations. So you can't easily switch between a powerline based system and a traditional hardwired system. Note: There are hardwired systems that run CAT5 and HV to the switches.

The least expensive hardwired system you will find is Centralite. Reviews here have been very good and you can DIY small to medium systems as well. Other non-harddwired systems include Lutron's RadioRA. It uses RF signals to communicate with devices and it and its big brother Lutron's Homeworks Wireless (What I have) are about as rock solid as a non-hardwired system will ever be. My system is about 99.5% reliable, but that other .5% is going to cost you.

Take a look at Centralite. I would have gone with their wireless Starlite system, but my wife like the Lutron keypads better.
 
I went through this process a few months ago. I wanted absolute reliability but without the huge price tag of some of the high end system. I was put off UPB by the switch delay issues that were reported.

So we are planning on putting in an iLine system soon (framing is in-progress at the moment) and tying it to an ELK M1.

From the quotes I was getting it is cheaper and more modular than Centralite, and doesn't require any different wiring layout. They sell a $200 evaluation kit which is worthwhile to get a feel for the switches and the responsiveness - and the components are reusable if you go ahead with the install. I personally liked the look and feel of the switches, but found the software somewhat complex.

As I understand it, as long as you loop the CAT5 through all the boxes you want to control before drywalling, you can install cheap 'dumb' switches up front and roll out the iLine switches as the budget allows.
 
I went through this process a few months ago. I wanted absolute reliability but without the huge price tag of some of the high end system. I was put off UPB by the switch delay issues that were reported.

So we are planning on putting in an iLine system soon (framing is in-progress at the moment) and tying it to an ELK M1.

From the quotes I was getting it is cheaper and more modular than Centralite, and doesn't require any different wiring layout. They sell a $200 evaluation kit which is worthwhile to get a feel for the switches and the responsiveness - and the components are reusable if you go ahead with the install. I personally liked the look and feel of the switches, but found the software somewhat complex.

As I understand it, as long as you loop the CAT5 through all the boxes you want to control before drywalling, you can install cheap 'dumb' switches up front and roll out the iLine switches as the budget allows.

This is interesting, and I might look at getting their evualation kit. I assume that you ordered the kit...if so, how was the responsivness of the switches? Also, have you tried controlling the evualation switches with the M1 yet? I now see that the M1 has support for both the I-Line and the OnQ ALC products.

What made you decide on I-Line over OnQ ALC?

Lastly, what is the cost of the system that you are putting in? What about individual switches? Are you having the system put in, or are you installing it yourself?

Thanks for any info...sorry to bombard you with questions. :p


FWIW, I am looking for a system where the lighting loads are run to the switches, so I think Centralite is out for me.

Yes, BSR, I Seek the GRAIL...I just don't want to end up like the Black Knight after paying for it. :p
 
I am sold on On-q ALC. I would chose hardwired over wireless anyday. I dont know the prices of the other systems so i cant tell you if its very expensive or just expensive. LOL. but there are from time to time alc switches on ebay for under 20 bucks. otherwise they are 75 to 100 PER switch. ouch. but, running wire NOW and adding as budget allows is a GREAT idea.

be careful on three way switches though. the on-q will allow you to have ZERO three-way switch HV wiring in your house. that can be a savings on your wiring bill from the electrician!! as you likely know, in a three way scenario with on-q its a simple one-way typical wiring scheme to one switch then a cat5 over to a dummy slave (or auxiallary) switch. so no need for any 3 way HV wiring. so, if you are goin with on-q in a prewire situation, you may want to go ahead and do the 3 way scenario up front, otherwise if you hard wire HV 3 way its a mess to change over later.

which controller you lookin at with on-q? if you are going light and want the hms 800, i have one i dont need since i upgraded to the 1100. plus a few other items.
 
The elk supports alc???? I did not know that! VERY nice! I thought the alc portion only worked with on-q assuming proprietary.
 
A couple more questions for those who might know the answers:

It looks like EDT only sells their I-Line products through dealers. Is this who would provide the support for that system, or if I purchased through a dealer, would I be able to get support directly from EDT.

It looks like the OnQ ALC system communicates to the Elk through X10. Considering this, wouldn't this be just as unreliable as traditional X10 lighting products? It seems silly to have a hardwired lighting system, that still uses X10 to communicate to the Elk.
 
sace, i dont think that is correct as the alc switches cannot recieve x10 commands that i am aware of. and it wouldnt make sense as you said, since its hard wired. something doesnt sound right on that one. IMO, x10 is bottom on the food chain so why have a 100 switch alc if its controlled by x10? on-q supports x10 but not thru its alc set up. 99.9% sure.
 
sace, i dont think that is correct as the alc switches cannot recieve x10 commands that i am aware of. and it wouldnt make sense as you said, since its hard wired. something doesnt sound right on that one. IMO, x10 is bottom on the food chain so why have a 100 switch alc if its controlled by x10? on-q supports x10 but not thru its alc set up. 99.9% sure.

The switch isnt controlled by X10. The lighting controller connects to the Elk using X10. I went to the OnQ website, and looked through the documentation. The main controller has an X10 port to connect to "security systems", which I assume means the Elk. Is there another "module" that has a serial connection?

http://www.onqlegrand.com/jahia/Jahia/pid/1081

If that is the case, it would be great system if it were stand alone, but if it needs to connect to an Elk (or HAI or Crestron), it looks like it only communicates to those using X10.

Maybe I did not read that right, so someone else please correct me if I am wrong.
 
sace, yes it has an interface x10 interface. BUT i am not sure that means that the elk will control it using x10 controls. i think it means you can add x10 lights to this system interface (on-q lighting controller).

do you have the elk?

if not i would scratch this lighting system set up in the link and just go with an HMS. why? this lighting control ONLY controls lights! if you had the hms, it would give you the lighting control as well as all the other expandable controls capabilities. this controller you are looking at, in the link, is for customers that want nothing but lighting control.

in your explanation, what x10 would control the on-q? i am not following you. would be more than happy to talk on phone if you want.
 
I installed an EDT i-line system in my new house by myself 2 years ago. The switches are very responsive and I have had no problems at all. I am controlling every load in the house (64) with the switches. The i-line software is a little hard to grasp initially, but if you are controlling with an ELK, there is no need to use the i-line software.

They do not have lamp modules, so for planning purposes, if you want a lamp controlled by the system, make sure you have the lamp outlet controlled via a switch.

Pete
 
I installed an EDT i-line system in my new house by myself 2 years ago. The switches are very responsive and I have had no problems at all. I am controlling every load in the house (64) with the switches. The i-line software is a little hard to grasp initially, but if you are controlling with an ELK, there is no need to use the i-line software.

They do not have lamp modules, so for planning purposes, if you want a lamp controlled by the system, make sure you have the lamp outlet controlled via a switch.

Pete

Did you purchase the system from a dealer, or from somewhere else? Do you mind if I ask what a 64 load system costed you approximately?

Another question that has popped up for me. Do the switches work like traditional light switches, so that if the system fails, you can still control the lights throughout the house locally?
 
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