Help define OnQ Lighting control scenarios

[beelzerob]

I'm trying to get a good grasp on how I wire for OnQ lighting control, and I thought the best way was to just start with some very basic scenarios and expand from there. I thought others might benefit from this info too.

Starting condition: House is wired conventionally, but pretend that walls are still open so wiring is trivially easy to put in.

Scenario 1
I want to control (replace) 3 existing conventional light switches using OnQ. Let's say the 3 light switches control 1) a bank of can lights (6 100w lights), 2) a fan motor (ceiling fan for instance?), and 3) a normal bulb that I want to have dimming control on.

On the control end, I want to be able to use a serial connection into a normal PC. Assume PC has necessary software to send and receive commands.

Now then....what parts do I need to do this (and feel free to even include the setnet links for them....either that, or simply model numbers so I know exactly what parts you're talking about) and what wiring configuration is required to do this?

 

[Sacedog]

I was kind of lost when I first started planning for my OnQ lighting a few months ago. You should consider giving Tony at SetNet an E-mail or call to help you out. He is SUPER knowledgable about the OnQ lighting, is very nice to talk to, and has the best prices. He should be able to help you figure out what you will need.

 

[beelzerob]

I was kind of lost when I first started planning for my OnQ lighting a few months ago. You should consider giving Tony at SetNet an E-mail or call to help you out. He is SUPER knowledgable about the OnQ lighting, is very nice to talk to, and has the best prices. He should be able to help you figure out what you will need.

Well, I was figuring this was info other lighting-newbie people might want to reference someday, so I made a new thread. I can get the info by myself, but just throught it might be more useful here. I was expecting Tony to make most of the responses, including links to the product at setnet.

Bah, screw you, lighting-newbies! Git your own info! :lol:

 

[rbroders]

Fantastic topic, I look forward to the results. Just for conversation purposes, I can tell you what EDT iLine parts you need to accomplish this task:

i-ON (for the cans)
i-ON-F (for the fan)
i-ON-D (for the dimmable bulb)
i-POWER-M1 (powers the network and serial in/out for your PC - comes with PW001 power supply brick)
These parts are daisy chained together via CAT5 w/RJ-45 jacks. The last device gets a special RJ-45 connector with a terminating resistor built into it.

Couldn't be easier! For very large networks, use the i-POWER-M4 to have four daisy chained runs. You may also need an i-POWER-XT extender if your total cable run gets too long.

--Bob

P.S. I purchased a EDT EVAL kit, and the wife thinks its okay. I'm also getting a few ALC switches for comparison. I think minor UI differences can be critical for this application. I'll post a review in a week or so when they arrive.

 

[beelzerob]

i-ON-D (for the dimmable bulb)

Is not every type of bulb dimmable? I think I know that halogen/can lights aren't dimmable, right? but otherwise, your typical incandescent bulb is dimmable normally, right?

 

[rbroders]

i-ON-D (for the dimmable bulb)

Is not every type of bulb dimmable? I think I know that halogen/can lights aren't dimmable, right? but otherwise, your typical incandescent bulb is dimmable normally, right?

Well, flourescent tubes are typically not dimmable (though I have another thread evaluating that issue). Also switched outlets aren't dimmable (unless you don't mind violating the NEC). Low voltage lights usually are dimmable as well with a few caveats. I believe most electronic transformers are dimmable, but magnetic transformers don't work with standard dimmer switches (i.e. the EDT i-ON-D) though the special dimmers are usually available (i.e. the EDT i-ON-Dmlv).

120V halogen/can lights are definitely dimmable (though excessive dimming will reduce the bulb life - the halide metal condenses on the quartz instead of back on the filament itself). I used the non-dimming switch because that seemed to be what you wanted.

Maybe a more complicated scenario is coming next.

--Bob

EDIT: fixed statements regarding dimmable electronic transformers

 

[beelzerob]

Oh, I just asked because when you said "dimmable bulb", it occured to me that I might have been planning to dim bulbs that weren't able to be. So I wanted to verify what the dimmable bulb types were.

I definitely appreciate the reply, and I'm hoping Tony or someone else will reply with what the OnQ/ALC configuration would be for this first simple scenario.

 

[rmcneil]

When Tony gets back to this thread, here are two things that might help advance the ALC cause:

1) Put together an intro pack of a dimmer switch, a relay switch, a scene switch, an aux switch and whatever control is necessary to run it. Price it at a bargain price so people can give it a real test in their house without breaking the bank. Since you believe in this product, make it affordable to do side-by-side testing.

I'd certainly install a batch along side my UPB test if I could test for $150 or so.

2) Find a way to get the On-Q literature more readily available. People here on CT are tinkerers and bleeding edgers who want to explore how something works, is installed, etc. On-Q must think making all their pdfs publicly available will do them some harm, but IMHO at least among the people on this forum, increasing sales comes AFTER increasing knowledge, not the other way around. As an example, look at all the learning that took place on the thread that sired this thread.

 

[TonyStewart]

I'm trying to get a good grasp on how I wire for OnQ lighting control, and I thought the best way was to just start with some very basic scenarios and expand from there. I thought others might benefit from this info too.

Starting condition: House is wired conventionally, but pretend that walls are still open so wiring is trivially easy to put in.

Scenario 1
I want to control (replace) 3 existing conventional light switches using OnQ. Let's say the 3 light switches control 1) a bank of can lights (6 100w lights), 2) a fan motor (ceiling fan for instance?), and 3) a normal bulb that I want to have dimming control on.

On the control end, I want to be able to use a serial connection into a normal PC. Assume PC has necessary software to send and receive commands.

Now then....what parts do I need to do this (and feel free to even include the setnet links for them....either that, or simply model numbers so I know exactly what parts you're talking about) and what wiring configuration is required to do this?

Sorry for the late response. Here goes with some answers.

You can control any load of up to 600watts with the OnQ dimmer. Provided they are incandescant. The 600 watt dimmer would support 600watts +/- 10%. So if the load is heavier (say 750watts) consider using the ALC 900 watt dimmer (will actually handle closer to 1000watts). But always remember this. 900/1000 watt dimmers fit in a single gang box. If you put them in a mutli gang box with other switches you must break off one or both of the heat sink tabs, lowering their rating. I have seen too many times when installers don't plan ahead and don't understand what the left and right heat sink are for and break off tabs. The result is a 600watt that cost more than it should and will burn out due to being overloaded.

Of course if you don't want to dim, then use the 15 amp relay.

I wished I could tell you the sure fix to being sure which loads are compatible. There are so many variations of electronic lights and motors (ceiling fans, etc) that no manufacturer is wise in making promises. In my home I use a dimmer on a 1/2 horse power ceiling fan (A REAL NO-NO). But it has worked for several years, makes no noise and does not overheat (the fan runs 24/7 on low speed). However, I installed a new fan in my guest house with a smaller motor and the switch hummed from day one. So I had to remove it and replace it with a relay version.

I use my own home as a test case. Where else to see results over a longer period of time.

As for flourescant loads, they can make a switch misbehave and when used with dimmers, the trickle current can be see by the bulb and may cause a faint glow. Try this. Put an incandecant load in parallel (if practical) with the flourescant and it may straigthen out.


Here is the way to control the ALC system using your PC (and the best part is the price). Use the ALC to PC interface and Scenetech software.

Or you can use the stand alone controller (with the scenetech software) and the stand alone serial interface. Remember that you must be LOGGED in to see the protected prices. Call us if you don't have the right access.

 

[TonyStewart]

i-ON-D (for the dimmable bulb)

Is not every type of bulb dimmable? I think I know that halogen/can lights aren't dimmable, right? but otherwise, your typical incandescent bulb is dimmable normally, right?

Well, flourescent tubes are typically not dimmable (though I have another thread evaluating that issue). Also switched outlets aren't dimmable (unless you don't mind violating the NEC). Low voltage lights usually are dimmable as well with a few caveats. I believe most electronic transformers are dimmable, but magnetic transformers don't work with standard dimmer switches (i.e. the EDT i-ON-D) though the special dimmers are usually available (i.e. the EDT i-ON-Dmlv).

120V halogen/can lights are definitely dimmable (though excessive dimming will reduce the bulb life - the halide metal condenses on the quartz instead of back on the filament itself). I used the non-dimming switch because that seemed to be what you wanted.

Maybe a more complicated scenario is coming next.

--Bob

EDIT: fixed statements regarding dimmable electronic transformers

When it comes to the electronics inside the switch, No manufacturer has an edge over anyone else as relates to the actual dimming method. They all use a triac and as such all see the dimmable loads pretty much the same way. In the world of instrumentation, SCR's (Silicon controlled Rectifiers) can change the rules, but these are way too expensive and don't fit inside a single gang device. While the control logic is certainly different the output electronics and power supply electronics is common to most automated light manufacturers. Meaning load issues are not brand specific.

Until a semiconductor manufacturer invents something new, dimmer electronics will share some common territory.

The safe bet is not to make promises. I have seen dimmers do things they should not and not do things they should. Lighting fixture manufacturers don't call automation manufacturers and invite them to engineering meetings. Until they do, test the switch with the load before making any claims and don't assume anything!

 

[TonyStewart]

When Tony gets back to this thread, here are two things that might help advance the ALC cause:

1) Put together an intro pack of a dimmer switch, a relay switch, a scene switch, an aux switch and whatever control is necessary to run it. Price it at a bargain price so people can give it a real test in their house without breaking the bank. Since you believe in this product, make it affordable to do side-by-side testing.

I'd certainly install a batch along side my UPB test if I could test for $150 or so.

2) Find a way to get the On-Q literature more readily available. People here on CT are tinkerers and bleeding edgers who want to explore how something works, is installed, etc. On-Q must think making all their pdfs publicly available will do them some harm, but IMHO at least among the people on this forum, increasing sales comes AFTER increasing knowledge, not the other way around. As an example, look at all the learning that took place on the thread that sired this thread.

Again, I am late, but here goes.

Bundling a test kit is something we can do. Actually we are in the process of creating training kits that will optionally ship with out ALC training DVD. We also have the same thing in the works for UPB.

As for price, reducing prices on hardware is the manufacturers job. Distributors like me work off the lowest margins in the automation food chain and reducing that is real tough. But, OnQ is providing me a kit price (exclusive to us) that will make our training kits more attractive. And we are including Scenetech software (software is easier to reduce margins on).

For the literature, I can get you anything you need. Call Anthony Stewart in my office and introduce yourself 1-864-663-001. Anthony (my son and he also has over 20 years in this business). As for printed literature if you will pay the freight he will overload you. And we have plenty of PDF's to email. You can certainly bypass OnQ.

Anthony does our web site and supports the DIY'er customers. For professional installers call Ron Norman at the same number (he too has been in this business since Moses was a baby).

Of course, I am happy to talk with any of you. Give us a call.

As relates to your comment about learning first, and purchasing second. We are best known as trainers in the Home Automation industry. But we have felt the pain over this. Way too many people suck us dry and then purchase from our competition. Still we are happy to make the investment and hope that some of our students actually feel that our commitment deserves loyalty.

God Bless

TS