Help me compare UPB switches

[fcwilt]

Why are the UPB folks so dead set against letting the switch start ramping for a single click while it is waiting to see if it needs to snap On for a double click? Why does it need to just do nothing during that time?

Probably because the single click and double click response can be set to a variety of behaviors. An early start of the single click behavior might not be "compatible" (for lack of a better term) with the double click behavior.

In theory if you had no defined double click behavior you could do away with the delay entirely.

 

[webmtn]

As part of the original concept for UPB, the designers came up with 4 actions that can occur with a wall switch rocker - single tap, double tap, hold, and release. By adding the double tap capability, now you can do some very flexible things. For example, you can activate a link with a single tap, but deactivate the same link using a double tap. Then, the press and hold could start a fade, and the release action could stop the fade. But, by using the Custom feature, you could make any of the four actions do almost anything it's very flexible and powerful. This double tap feature is built into the base core firmware.

The issue with the delay response time is that you have to give the switch enough time to determine if the user is going to do a double tap before you start the dimming action. In the original switches, there was a delay of 750 ms to allow the switch to make sure that the user was not going to do a double tap. This was a huge topic of debate in the user community - users either loved it or hated it. So, all of the vendors - SAI, PCS, HAI, and WMT - have implemented a user adjustable delay. Now, from Upstart, if the switch version supports it, you can select 300 ms, 450 ms, 600 ms, and 750 ms (it might be slightly different for the various vendors). I think it is SAI firmware V1.13 where they implemented it, but this did not support the lower setting. Their V1.15 does support the lower setting. PCS and HAI (I think HAI did this at the same time) implemented this capability when they introduced their Gen2 switches. This is not technically a Gen2 issue - it just happened to be introduced along with the Gen2 capability.

I have talked with many users who really complained about the 750 ms setting and they really like the 300 ms setting. While they will tell you that they would like to see it be instanteous, 300 ms is pretty fast. In fact, it can be an issue putting a device into setup mode - you have to press the rocker five times very quickly. I've had guys that could not press the rocker fast enough to get it into setup mode. What I tell people to do is do all of your desired programming with the switch at 750 ms, then come back and change it to 300 once they are satisfied.

Hope this helps.

 

[upstatemike]

As part of the original concept for UPB, the designers came up with 4 actions that can occur with a wall switch rocker - single tap, double tap, hold, and release. By adding the double tap capability, now you can do some very flexible things. For example, you can activate a link with a single tap, but deactivate the same link using a double tap. Then, the press and hold could start a fade, and the release action could stop the fade. But, by using the Custom feature, you could make any of the four actions do almost anything it's very flexible and powerful. This double tap feature is built into the base core firmware.

The issue with the delay response time is that you have to give the switch enough time to determine if the user is going to do a double tap before you start the dimming action. In the original switches, there was a delay of 750 ms to allow the switch to make sure that the user was not going to do a double tap. This was a huge topic of debate in the user community - users either loved it or hated it. So, all of the vendors - SAI, PCS, HAI, and WMT - have implemented a user adjustable delay. Now, from Upstart, if the switch version supports it, you can select 300 ms, 450 ms, 600 ms, and 750 ms (it might be slightly different for the various vendors). I think it is SAI firmware V1.13 where they implemented it, but this did not support the lower setting. Their V1.15 does support the lower setting. PCS and HAI (I think HAI did this at the same time) implemented this capability when they introduced their Gen2 switches. This is not technically a Gen2 issue - it just happened to be introduced along with the Gen2 capability.

I have talked with many users who really complained about the 750 ms setting and they really like the 300 ms setting. While they will tell you that they would like to see it be instanteous, 300 ms is pretty fast. In fact, it can be an issue putting a device into setup mode - you have to press the rocker five times very quickly. I've had guys that could not press the rocker fast enough to get it into setup mode. What I tell people to do is do all of your desired programming with the switch at 750 ms, then come back and change it to 300 once they are satisfied.

Hope this helps.

I think some folks have suggested that there are 2 further refinements that should be considered:

1- An option to allow the switch to start fading up immediately and then abandon the fade and snap to full On if there is a second tap.

2- Add a separate set switch (or hold the top and bottom of the rocker in at the same time) as an alternative to the 5-taps for programming. This will allow the delay to be optimized for rapid response without making the programming process too difficult.

 

[toymaster458]

2- Add a separate set switch (or hold the top and bottom of the rocker in at the same time) as an alternative to the 5-taps for programming. This will allow the delay to be optimized for rapid response without making the programming process too difficult.

I would vote against a seperate set switch as I personaly found kids LOVE to play with them. As far as hold the top and bottom, how are you suppose to do that on a single rocker style switch?

 

[opie]

Just the same as everyone else is telling you... I find the biggest difference is just the look and feel of the switches.

I'm doing more with UPB now that the second generation devices are available as I never liked the turn-on delay of the original generation devices.

Here's a little demo box I put together that allows customers to see and feel the difference:

Right now it's got Insteon, RadioRA, HAI UPB Gen2 and SAI UPB GEN1. The turn on delay on the older GEN1 device is really noticable when you have them side-by-side like this.

Cheers,
Paul

Paul,

What did you use to make the stickers? I really like what you've done and would like to do something similar for my client meetings. I bring switches with me but not hooked to anything.

Thanks

The main thing to seperate SA from the rest are the interchangable faceplates. You can add scenes at later dates then switch out the faceplate to gain more transmitions. Also the PCS multi buttons are NOT load barring switches.

The interchangeable face plates are a very nice feature of SAI.

I believe the PCS Keypad Dimmer will be out in a few months. I was told it was number 1 or 2 on their priority list.

Scott

 

[upstatemike]

2- Add a separate set switch (or hold the top and bottom of the rocker in at the same time) as an alternative to the 5-taps for programming. This will allow the delay to be optimized for rapid response without making the programming process too difficult.

I would vote against a seperate set switch as I personaly found kids LOVE to play with them. As far as hold the top and bottom, how are you suppose to do that on a single rocker style switch?

I don't know the mechanics of how the rocker is put together but I used to have some old X10 switches that worked this way for programming. (I don't remember if manufacturer was PCS or ACT.)

 

[Event5]

[/quote]
As far as hold the top and bottom, how are you suppose to do that on a single rocker style switch?

I don't know the mechanics of how the rocker is put together but I used to have some old X10 switches that worked this way for programming. (I don't remember if manufacturer was PCS or ACT.)
[/quote]

PCS x10 switches were put in Program mode this way. The plastic was just stretched a little to close both the top switch and the bottom switch for a few seconds.

Dave

 

[CalypsoCowboy]

Bringing up an old thread.

Can someone comment on the look and feel of the PCS and HAI switches?

I was under the impression that the HAI switches were just OEMed under PCS. But I was curious if they felt different when tapping. Just wondering why the PCS switches are more expensive other than the 5yr vs 2 yr warranty.

-Josh

 

[MikeB]

I find the HAI switches have a "mushier" feel than PCS.

 

[Steve]

Nope, they are completely different switches. Mike is right. The PCS and SAI switches feel similar but the PCS and HAI switches look similar. PCS and SAI are more of a distinct click where HAI is more subdued or 'mushier' as Mike said.