New to UPB: Can UPB switches execute commands in SEQUENCE or send "links" based on switch status?

[Odeen]

Hi guys,

So over the last week, I was bitten by the Home Automation bug. My initial plan is to start out with my living room and kitchen lights, plus powered Hunter Douglas shade.

I've decided on UPB because it seems the most DIY-friendly, the switches have a true rocker up/down action, and there are dry c ontact output modules available (to control the shade)

What I'm curious about is just how much "brains" are available in each switch. I realize the switches can execute an action based on a button tap or hold and they can send an action based on a button tap or hold.

What I want the switches to do, though, is this:
1) Send a link if a certain condition is true at the switch
I.E. - If switch A is turned off (regardless if it was tapped off, dimmed off, or received a signal to turn off), send a "turn off" command to Switch B.

2) Execute several commands in a SEQUENCE
Scenes and variable dimming rates are nice. What I'd like to do, though, is turn the lights on and off in a specific sequence, say illuminating areas in an open floor plan house one at a time. For example, I'd like for one Keypad button to: Snap turn off lights at Switch A and dim lights at Switch B over 3 seconds. Once Switch B is done, dim lights at switch C over 3 seconds. Once switch C is done, dim lights at switch D over 3 seconds. Pushing the button again should reverse the process - i.e. gradually bring up D, then C, then B, then snap on A.

Can UPB switches be programmed to do either of those tasks? If not, what's the easiest/most cost efficient way to do this, ideally short of an always-on computer with full fledged home automation software?

 

[Steve]

Welcome to CocoonTech!

Just curious, what HD shade are you going to control? Does it use the hardwire motor or is it a PowerRise or PowerGlide?

Unfortunately there really is no logic controller in the switches so you would have to depend on either a hardware or software controller for real logic. The switches can basically act on links either trigger from a buttom activity or sent from someplace over the line (like from a controller or another switch). There are some simple plug in timer controllers but pretty much all the programming is time based.

For 1, you can do what you want based on button press, but the switch cannot send a link based on receiving a link.

For 2, that's not possible exactly the way you describe but maybe you can do something sort of similar? Maybe it so the keypress sends a specific link. The the switches receive the link, they do the following (note that with UPB you can sometimes get the 'popcorn effect' when controlling several switches. This means not all switches react immediately when a link is sent out. There could be delays of a second or so. Anyway, so button pressed:

Switch A off immediately
Switch B fade off in 3.3 sec
Switch C fade off in 6.6 sec
Switch D fade off in 10 sec

They wouldn't go in sequence, they would all start dimming toward off at the same time, but you could adjust the fade rate so the switches next in your desired sequence take longer to go off. This would sort of give your desired effect that certain areas would be on longer than other. Just not you have to use the build in fade rates and once past 10 sec it is less granular.

To have the most flexibility you will need some sort of external controller.

 

[drozwood90]

You might need a UPB timer to do what you are asking. I was considering one as a backup, basically my software based control software was "breaking" all the time. However, ever since I re-installed, and was VERY dilligent to ONLY install the plugins that I NEEDED, the system has been EXTREMELY reliable. No lockups, etc.

However, without a "controller" of some kind, you will need a UPB timer module (IMHO).

--Dan

 

[Odeen]

Welcome to CocoonTech!

Just curious, what HD shade are you going to control? Does it use the hardwire motor or is it a PowerRise or PowerGlide?

Luminette Powerglide. It's currently using the "usual" Platinum motor / Satellite Eye / RF remote, but it can be easily adapted for HA with their "Hunter Douglas Platinum Technology 2.0 Connection Interface" (Part number 4254220003). The interface then allows shade control by shorting the open or close pins to ground using one of those 3-input 2-output controllers from Simply Automated or Web Mountain.

The more I think about it, actually, the more I realize that you could just splice the wires from the relay straight into the satellite eye cable. The Connection Interface does the same thing, but with a $80 price tag.

Unfortunately there really is no logic controller in the switches so you would have to depend on either a hardware or software controller for real logic. The switches can basically act on links either trigger from a buttom activity or sent from someplace over the line (like from a controller or another switch). There are some simple plug in timer controllers but pretty much all the programming is time based.

<snip snip>

To have the most flexibility you will need some sort of external controller.

Bummer. I guess status-based logic is a bit much to expect from a light switch.

Is there a UPB-centric (or UPB-only) controller that can poll a wall switch status and execute commands if certain conditions are met? I imagine any sort of a megabuck dealer-install-onlly whole-house automation system could do this, except they all seem designed for 10,000 sq. foot mansions with a pool, jacuzzi, outdoor lighting, three garage doors, servant's quarters, remote gate, alarm systems, attack dogs and kids who never turn the lights off in their rooms. I live in a condo, I just want really smart DIY light switches.

 

[electron]

The new Web Mountain UPB controller supports controlling other UPB equipment if it receives a certain UPB command. I am reviewing the unit right now (in fact, it's done, I just need to verify a few details with the manufacturer), should be posted later today or tomorrow the latest. There will also be a UPB version of the ISY controller in the very near future, it's currently in beta testing.

 

[Odeen]

The new Web Mountain UPB controller supports controlling other UPB equipment if it receives a certain UPB command. I am reviewing the unit right now (in fact, it's done, I just need to verify a few details with the manufacturer), should be posted later today or tomorrow the latest. There will also be a UPB version of the ISY controller in the very near future, it's currently in beta testing.

Very cool, I look forward to reading about the new controller.

Of course now I'm looking into in-wall touch-screen computers to run the system...

 

[tmbrown97]

My $0.02 - Just bite the bullet and go for a full automation controller

My personal system of choice is the Elk M1G which has rules of its own to handle a lot of situations - like "when system is armed and garage entry becomes not-secure, turn on garage foyer lights" and "whenever it is dark and the front porch lights are off and the front door is opened OR the doorbell becomes not-secure, turn on the front porch lights for 30 minutes (restart timer if lights are already on) - or whenever garage door (any of them - the roll ups or the entry doors) become not-secure, turn on garage lights for 30 mins (way better than the lights on the opener!).

Then you can use another 3rd party system for the trickier stuff and the touchscreen controls... Check out Elve for example.

One thing that really disappointed me about UPB - was that since it can have single tap and double-tap functions, I would've liked it if a single tap turned off one light, and a double-tap executed a scene (or something like that)... unfortunately it seems a single or double tap must always control the same scene or light... just different light levels or things like that. Definitely not as flexible as it could be... but considering I just ordered 32 more UPB switches yesterday, it must not have dissuaded me too much!

 

[drozwood90]

My $0.02 - Just bite the bullet and go for a full automation controller

My personal system of choice is the Elk M1G which has rules of its own to handle a lot of situations - like "when system is armed and garage entry becomes not-secure, turn on garage foyer lights" and "whenever it is dark and the front porch lights are off and the front door is opened OR the doorbell becomes not-secure, turn on the front porch lights for 30 minutes (restart timer if lights are already on) - or whenever garage door (any of them - the roll ups or the entry doors) become not-secure, turn on garage lights for 30 mins (way better than the lights on the opener!).

Then you can use another 3rd party system for the trickier stuff and the touchscreen controls... Check out Elve for example.

One thing that really disappointed me about UPB - was that since it can have single tap and double-tap functions, I would've liked it if a single tap turned off one light, and a double-tap executed a scene (or something like that)... unfortunately it seems a single or double tap must always control the same scene or light... just different light levels or things like that. Definitely not as flexible as it could be... but considering I just ordered 32 more UPB switches yesterday, it must not have dissuaded me too much!

you SHOULD be able to do that with a controller. Just look for the "SNAP" or the "ON" in the link.

I've not done it, but that's how I was thinking about doing it.

--Dan

 

[drozwood90]

Here's a link to the Timer:
http://www.simply-automated.com/products/c...duler_timer.php

--Dan

 

[JonW]

<snip>
One thing that really disappointed me about UPB - was that since it can have single tap and double-tap functions, I would've liked it if a single tap turned off one light, and a double-tap executed a scene (or something like that)... unfortunately it seems a single or double tap must always control the same scene or light... just different light levels or things like that. Definitely not as flexible as it could be... but considering I just ordered 32 more UPB switches yesterday, it must not have dissuaded me too much!

I have many rooms setup where a rocker switch turns the local load on/off with a single tap, but a double tap executes a scene for the room. Yes, it would be real nice if you could send different scenes for single vs double tap.

 

[Odeen]

My $0.02 - Just bite the bullet and go for a full automation controller

My personal system of choice is the Elk M1G which has rules of its own to handle a lot of situations - like "when system is armed and garage entry becomes not-secure, turn on garage foyer lights" and "whenever it is dark and the front porch lights are off and the front door is opened OR the doorbell becomes not-secure, turn on the front porch lights for 30 minutes (restart timer if lights are already on) - or whenever garage door (any of them - the roll ups or the entry doors) become not-secure, turn on garage lights for 30 mins (way better than the lights on the opener!).

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a PC controller.

Elk seems to get super spendy super quick, and I'd hardly USE it for anything besides lighting control. Also, the touchscreens work via ethernet - and I don't have an ethernet drop where I want to locate the touchscreen. I do have power there, though.

On the other hand, I could get an ELO touch panel on eBay, build a little Atom-based fanless system to mount behind it, and connect it to power, to UPB and use wireless for network access. Since all the automation LOGIC resides on the computer, the automation still runs even if wireless is disrupted. Network connectivity is not mission-critical.

It seems that I could even install an electrical box INSIDE the wall, branching off the existing outlet near the floor. That inwall electrical box would provide power for the PC and monitor, plus house the PC-UPB interface. I'd just need to find inwall-rated power and serial cables.

I'm lucky in the sense that I don't need all this automation. I'm doing it because it's cool, to impress my friends and frighten my enemies. In that sense, an HA PC wins on user interface and functionality potential - Elk and Pulseworx touch panels look fairly ho-hum and cannot run desktop Windows or Linux.

One thing that really disappointed me about UPB - was that since it can have single tap and double-tap functions, I would've liked it if a single tap turned off one light, and a double-tap executed a scene (or something like that)... unfortunately it seems a single or double tap must always control the same scene or light... just different light levels or things like that. Definitely not as flexible as it could be... but considering I just ordered 32 more UPB switches yesterday, it must not have dissuaded me too much!

Just out of curiosity, which switches did you get?

 

[priorityelectric]

My $0.02 - Just bite the bullet and go for a full automation controller

My personal system of choice is the Elk M1G which has rules of its own to handle a lot of situations - like "when system is armed and garage entry becomes not-secure, turn on garage foyer lights" and "whenever it is dark and the front porch lights are off and the front door is opened OR the doorbell becomes not-secure, turn on the front porch lights for 30 minutes (restart timer if lights are already on) - or whenever garage door (any of them - the roll ups or the entry doors) become not-secure, turn on garage lights for 30 mins (way better than the lights on the opener!).

Then you can use another 3rd party system for the trickier stuff and the touchscreen controls... Check out Elve for example.

One thing that really disappointed me about UPB - was that since it can have single tap and double-tap functions, I would've liked it if a single tap turned off one light, and a double-tap executed a scene (or something like that)... unfortunately it seems a single or double tap must always control the same scene or light... just different light levels or things like that. Definitely not as flexible as it could be... but considering I just ordered 32 more UPB switches yesterday, it must not have dissuaded me too much!

actually you can program the double tap to be any scene you wish.
I have set up functions in homes that if you double tap an exterior light every exterior light will go on,... or off
I have set up a scene if you double tap the switch at the top of the stairs it will turn on the lights downstairs in a succession,... 3 seconds 5 seconds, 15 seconds etc.
Pulseworx PCS UPB allows almost anything. Take a good look at the software UPSTART nicknamed by many as UPCHUCK.

 

[drozwood90]

But you are doing that with a separate controller, right?

--Dan

 

[JonW]

actually you can program the double tap to be any scene you wish.
I have set up functions in homes that if you double tap an exterior light every exterior light will go on,... or off
I have set up a scene if you double tap the switch at the top of the stairs it will turn on the lights downstairs in a succession,... 3 seconds 5 seconds, 15 seconds etc.
Pulseworx PCS UPB allows almost anything. Take a good look at the software UPSTART nicknamed by many as UPCHUCK.

Sure the double tap can use any scene, but he was referring to having DIFFERENT scenes for single tap versus double tap - and that you cannot do. For a rocker, you can have the single tap activate the local load WITHOUT sending the scene link, then have the double tap also activate the load WITH sending the scene link. I do this exact setup for many rooms where I don't use a dedicated controller. Great for outside lights as well. Example: I have 4 different rocker switches that each control a single outside light in the rear of my house. Any one of them can tap on/off to individually turn that light on/off, but if you double tap it on or off, it activates the scene for all 4 of the outdoor switches.

But you are doing that with a separate controller, right?

--Dan

What he is describing is the ramping of multiple lights at different rates - not actually coming on at the stated times. You can specify in each switch (or plug in module) how it reacts to a link/scene. You can tell it to ramp to a specified level (between 0 and 100%) over a specified ramp time (3.3 seconds, 5 seconds, 10 seconds, 20 seconds, etc.). When the link/scene is activated, ALL of the linked lights will start to come on at the same time, but they will ramp to their specified brightness over the specified time. They will not turn on in succession at 3 seconds, 5 seconds, 15 seconds, etc. There is no delay mechanism to accomplish this, only the ramp rate.

 

[drozwood90]

That single tap local, double tap scene only works for certain switches. The US2-40's do not support this. I know the 11-30s do. Not sure about any other switches out there.

That's why for me, I do require a controller (in my case Homeseer). Which I then intervene and do whatever I want. Such as in the basement, if you turn the stairwell light on, you get the stairwell. If you then wait a count of 1 Mississippi, tap again (within 10 seconds), HS will turn on the light in my Man-cave.

Works well, as I turn the stairwell on, walk down the stairs, by the time I get to the bottom, I hit ON again, the link is sent a second time and HS turns on the man-cave.

As for the ramping, that is a REALLY good idea. I'm always looking for ways to keep most basic functionality IN the switches, without the controller, just in case the controller is down (I feel better about the version of HS that I'm running...VERY stable).

Such as in my baby's room, single tap sends set to 30%, double tap is snap to full. That way at night if we had to go in there, you don't get blinded, and I'm not relying on my server having enough clock cycles to respond in time. (if I'm defragmenting, or backing up, or whatever, HS can respond a little slow...at least it used to before I got my new Pentium 4 Extreme Edition Processor).

--Dan