SA US1-40 switches to HAI HLC Mode

JonW

Senior Member
Ano, I don't think the 241/242 usage is 100% correct.  You can use ANY link within the room group (On/Off/A/B/C/D) and the HAI panel will query every device within that room to get full updated state of each switch.  Also, any link transmitted also includes the source switch #.
 

ano

Senior Member
JonW said:
Ano, I don't think the 241/242 usage is 100% correct.  You can use ANY link within the room group (On/Off/A/B/C/D) and the HAI panel will query every device within that room to get full updated state of each switch.  Also, any link transmitted also includes the source switch #.
I don't disagree with you. That is the second half of HLC, it detects links sent for room scenes, then polls those switches on their status, and as you say, those links contain the switch # as well.  Do you know in the OP2 uses that switch # info?  It seems like if it received a scene link, it would go ahead and poll the switches for that room no matter which switch sent it.  Or does the OP2 only do the polling if a Room Controller generated the link?  I'm not sure.
 

JonW

Senior Member
Correct - the OP2 will poll every device in a room in response to receiving a packet sourced by any switch in that room.  In addition, the OP2 will transmit new links to the room controllers to track room status in response to the switch activation.  There really is no need to use the 241/242 links - you just need any link transmitted.  If you just set the switch to transmit status, the OP2 will keep everything in sync.
 
In my rooms that do not have room controllers, I have the single rocker switches set to transmit the room ON link on double tap, but just transmit status on single tap.  This lets me use the switch as both a single device on/off, but to also set the room scene with other switches or lamp modules.  Standard usage in our house is to double tap off the wall switch when leaving a room.  Single tap transmits status, double tap transmits link.
 

pete_c

Guru
Here with testing using virtual rooms and SA UPB US1-40 switches I can control room devices, scenes, et al via Snaplink, Omnitouch 5.7e screen et al.  I see the status change on the screens. 
 
That said I still do not see status change on the screens when I turn on and off a switch at the wall.  I do same as you JonW for all of the wall switches.  Single on taps are dim, double taps are 100 %, single / double off taps are off with a delay or snap with the double tap.
 
Using UPB software (Homeseer) I see the status of the SA switches change and all of the links changing or providing status such that the links / status are there.  Have two controllers connected to Homeseer to test.  One is the USB SA PIM locally and the other is an HAI serial PIM connected to a Quatech server on the other side of the house.  Both see all of the UPB devices and links fine.  I also connected to the same UPB Pim that is plugged in to the panel to make sure that it is working and it is working just fine. 
 
@Ano I think you went to using a PCS serial PIM instead of an HAI serial PIM on your OmniPro 2 panel.  Does the PCS serial PIM work better for you?
 
Here historically have only used HAI serial PIMs and kept the SA PIMs as mobile for testing PIMs and have never tried a PCS PIM.
 

JonW

Senior Member
pete_c said:
Single on taps are dim, double taps are 100 %, single / double off taps are off with a delay or snap with the double tap.
This description doesn't match what you've shown in screenshots prior.
 
Here's what one of my switches look like.  Note that I am transmitting a status on single tap and a link on double tap.  Instead of transmitting 241/242 on yours, try setting the link to "Use Last Scene". (I use that on some of mine also and I get proper status tracking).
 
UPB-SWITCH.PNG
 

pete_c

Guru
Thank you Jon.
 
Programmed the Hallway switch as you have above.  Didn't know about the custom configuration / well never used it before.
 
hallwayUS1-40.jpg
 
Tapped on the switch while watching switch status on the OmniPro 5.7e screen.
 
No change in status.  Light did go on and off per taps.
 

JonW

Senior Member
Pete - do you have UPB explorer enabled in UPSTART?  You can use it to watch to see if you are getting the expected UPB packet when you press the light switch button.
 
If UPB explorer is not in your menu under "Advanced", "UPB Explorer", then you can enable it by going to "Tools", "Log", "Configure", then "Extra Features".  Put in the code UPB1 in an open box to enable explorer.
 

pete_c

Guru
do you have UPB explorer enabled in UPSTART?
 
I am using most current version of Upstart and do not see the options.
 
That said I opened the log and see all sorts of stuff when I press on the switch.
 
upblog.jpg
 

JonW

Senior Member
Sure looks like you should be seeing the proper status in the OP2.  Nothing jumping out at me on why it isn't working for you.
 
 

pete_c

Guru
Thank you Jon.
 
This morning had a look at the connected UPB Pim software.  The software creates unit and link variables.  I do see the UPB devices / links status changes with the software.  Looking at PCA live connected I see HLC units on or off (including rooms).  I have automation events which turn on the units at scheduled times.  I see status of a few units on still from last night but really in off mode.  Wierd cuz I have automation events that shut off all of these units (lights) after midnight yet the status of these units is still from being turned on via the automation event.
 
I am making a mountain out of a mole hill here as I am only tinkering with the HLC stuff.
 
This morning re installed the 4.X firmware, tested with the same results.
 
Then I downgraded to 3.16 firmware.  Did a warm reset of the panel and a re upload of the current configuration.
 
Same issues relating to seeing not seeing status of the HLC devices when I tap on a switch.
 

ano

Senior Member
pete_c said:
Same issues relating to seeing not seeing status of the HLC devices when I tap on a switch.
O.K. Give use these details:  Who manufacturers your switches? Are you using a repeater or coupler? Which PIM are you using on the panel, HAI or SA?
 
If you say SA switches AND a Repeater, that explains it, OR if you are using a SA PIM that explains it, otherwise you got me.
 
I did use the PCS PIM with your great cable for some time, and it generally worked, but it didn't work occasionally. I don't remember the exact details now, but I went back to the HAI PIM and it worked great ever since.
 

pete_c

Guru
Thank you Ano.
 
Who manufacturers your switches?
 
PCS, HAI and SA - testing with SA and HAI switches.
 
Configured the SA switch per HAI matrix spreadsheet document.  OP2 is configured with virtual room controllers.
 
I have not been able to enroll an HAI switch via PCA, Omnitouch 5.7e, Snaplink, Omnitouch Pro for windows or Keypad console with just the HAI repeater on.
 
Are you using a repeater or coupler?
 
I have an HAI repeater, SA phase coupler and PCS phase coupler.
 
These are all on breakers.  When I test with the SA switch I shut off the HAI UPB repeater and turn on the SA phase coupler.
 
Which PIM are you using on the panel, HAI or SA?
 
Only the HAI PIM
 
I have Homeseer connected to an HAI serial PIM and see the link and switch activity just fine.
 
IE: when I toggle the switch on I see the link activate and the UPB device go on in Homeseer.
 
@Ano, what consoles do you utilize? 
 
BTW concurrently looking at a pure HAI HLC home with some 50 plus HAI HLC switches.  Here can only remotely look at PCA status and Snaplink status and Upstart status.  Users primarily use Snaplink on their mobile phones.
 
The house has one Omnitouch 3.5" legacy screen and I cannot see it.
 
Will request that they tap on a switch so that I can watch PCA and Snaplink at the same time.  Curious what I will see.
 

ano

Senior Member
JonW said:
Correct - the OP2 will poll every device in a room in response to receiving a packet sourced by any switch in that room.  In addition, the OP2 will transmit new links to the room controllers to track room status in response to the switch activation.  There really is no need to use the 241/242 links - you just need any link transmitted.  If you just set the switch to transmit status, the OP2 will keep everything in sync.
 
In my rooms that do not have room controllers, I have the single rocker switches set to transmit the room ON link on double tap, but just transmit status on single tap.  This lets me use the switch as both a single device on/off, but to also set the room scene with other switches or lamp modules.  Standard usage in our house is to double tap off the wall switch when leaving a room.  Single tap transmits status, double tap transmits link.
So I did some testing, and I DO have room and house controllers, and they indicate which scene is active and which rooms have lights on.  If I DON'T use the links 241 and 242 like HLC specifies, and I just have the switches send their status, the panel doesn't update the room and house controllers with the room's status.  If I use links 241 and 242, it does. For example, lets say you press the "party" link on your room controller. That room lights on the house controller and the "party" button lights for that room, and stays lite unless you either turn off all the lights in the room with their switches, or turn on all the lights in the room with their switches. When you do, the "party" indicator goes off and "all on" or the "all off" indicator goes on. 
 
So if you do use these controllers, you probably need to use the 241 and 242 links, otherwise, it probably doesn't matter to your setup.
 
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