I dont have any in unheated areas. I will try and find out from ELK later today. I can tell you that I have tested other brands and the LCD have more problems with heat then cold but i never tested below 30 F so I cant be sure on this one. It is possible ELK has not tested down to -20F.
Help planning Elk system
- Thread starter SnyperBob
- Start date
I dont have any in unheated areas. I will try and find out from ELK later today. I can tell you that I have tested other brands and the LCD have more problems with heat then cold but i never tested below 30 F so I cant be sure on this one. It is possible ELK has not tested down to -20F.
Neurorad
Senior Member
The M1KPAS keypad is also rated 32-120, but the LCD may be the greatest problem.
I did a search of the Elk installer 'bulletin board' (old school!), and didn't find an answer, about garage keypads in freezing temperatures.
I'm sure there are many CT members from the great white north who know the answer to this.
I did a search of the Elk installer 'bulletin board' (old school!), and didn't find an answer, about garage keypads in freezing temperatures.
I'm sure there are many CT members from the great white north who know the answer to this.
SnyperBob
Active Member
Thanks guys,
I assume that when it gets super cold the LCD screen will not work well, but I would think that all of the buttons will still function fine.
I am just hoping someone that has a keypad in an unheated area that gets cold will chime in and let me know about this. I suppose I could just remove the keypad during extreme temps
I assume that when it gets super cold the LCD screen will not work well, but I would think that all of the buttons will still function fine.
I am just hoping someone that has a keypad in an unheated area that gets cold will chime in and let me know about this. I suppose I could just remove the keypad during extreme temps
AceCannon
Active Member
The card reader connects to the keypad itself. It is the keypad that sits on the Elk databus, not the card reader. So once you get the keypad working, the card reader can be added.
Regarding my diagram, I still feel that the RS485 topology is maintained as I have it depicted. If you already have cat5e to the garage, I don't see a reason why you would have to use something other than the regular DBH. The "out and back" just needs to include both the keypad and the input expander.
Regarding my diagram, I still feel that the RS485 topology is maintained as I have it depicted. If you already have cat5e to the garage, I don't see a reason why you would have to use something other than the regular DBH. The "out and back" just needs to include both the keypad and the input expander.
I'm at that stage now -- I have the ELK and smokes running off one 1280 battery, and another P624 power supply and 1280 battery to power the WSV, and the RS485 bus. I wish I could configure so that both batteries run both device stacks, but I don't know how to do it. Suggestions?
felixrosbergen
Senior Member
Since the batteries are DC, can't you parallel them? I guess that get's a little hairy charing them and such...
Monk
Active Member
Correct - You would essentially be connecting the 12v output from both the ELK and external power supply - Offhand I think this wouldn't be cool without some additional circuitry.
No solution to offer, sorry.
What is your standby and alarm currents?
N.B. backup times corrected
Typical is 2.58 amps total. Absolute maximum is 5.21 amps (i.e. WSV turning, all smokes sounding, battery backup to the fireplace ignitors, all keypads buzzing, all output relays moving). In practice, outside of a short 10-second window, alarm current is actually 3.6 amps.
Right now, I plan to have
I know that I exceed the P624 maximum current, but the specs say I can draw up to 2.5 amps for a short time if the battery is full -- the extra 1.5 amp is just to turn the water valve and light the fireplaces so it's a short time draw. It's also unlikely that everything will go at the same time.
What I'd really like is to keep the critical systems (smokes, water sensors, fireplace ignitors, temperature sensors, exterior doors all talking to the Elk who sends phone alerts) for the longest period possible; the rest can be dumped until power is restored. One way to approach that goal is to combine both batteries to run all the items, keeping the Elk alive longer. But I don't think linking the batteries in parallel and driving both the M1G and the P624 is a wise move -- maybe an electrical engineer or ELK tech support can comment.
Typical is 2.58 amps total. Absolute maximum is 5.21 amps (i.e. WSV turning, all smokes sounding, battery backup to the fireplace ignitors, all keypads buzzing, all output relays moving). In practice, outside of a short 10-second window, alarm current is actually 3.6 amps.
Right now, I plan to have
- 1.65 amps typical through the M1G (average battery backup time = 4.75 hours) powering
- M1G,
- 3 x M1XIN
- M1XOVR
- 5 x M1ZTS
- 11 x motion/glass detectors
- 23 x door/water/current detectors
- 0.45 typical through the P624 (average battery backup time = 17.5 hours) powering
- 4 x M1XSP
- M1XRFG
- 7 x keypads
- 5 x smokes
- 2.47 amps on the M1G (yielding 3.25 hour backup time) where the 0.8 amp difference comes from
- + 0.5 amps more to M1XOVR (10 seconds)
- + 0.3 amps to the M1G.
- 2.44 amps on the P624 (yielding 3.25 hour backup time) , where the 2 amp difference comes from
- + 1 amp to the WSV (10 seconds)
- + 0.4 amps is fireplace ignitors (10 seconds)
- + 0.35 amps to the smoke sounders,
- + 0.3 amps to keypad buzzers and backlights.
I know that I exceed the P624 maximum current, but the specs say I can draw up to 2.5 amps for a short time if the battery is full -- the extra 1.5 amp is just to turn the water valve and light the fireplaces so it's a short time draw. It's also unlikely that everything will go at the same time.
What I'd really like is to keep the critical systems (smokes, water sensors, fireplace ignitors, temperature sensors, exterior doors all talking to the Elk who sends phone alerts) for the longest period possible; the rest can be dumped until power is restored. One way to approach that goal is to combine both batteries to run all the items, keeping the Elk alive longer. But I don't think linking the batteries in parallel and driving both the M1G and the P624 is a wise move -- maybe an electrical engineer or ELK tech support can comment.
WayneW
Senior Member
What am I missing here? I thought you said you were using a single 8AH battery for each? That would yield run times of 4.8 hours and 17.7 hours, 1/10 of your numbers.
Neurorad
Senior Member
I think AnthonyZ said to use some type of diode with a parallel battery setup? Maybe a Zener diode?
I didn't understand how to do it when I read his post, so I can't tell you.
I'll go look for it - I think it was in the 'How long will your alarm run after power outage' thread.
Edit - right thread, wrong member.
Icellama suggests 2 batteries of different size, connected with an unspecified diode. Not zener.
I didn't understand how to do it when I read his post, so I can't tell you.
I'll go look for it - I think it was in the 'How long will your alarm run after power outage' thread.
Edit - right thread, wrong member.
Icellama suggests 2 batteries of different size, connected with an unspecified diode. Not zener.
My mistake, I entered 80 rather than 8.0 into my spreadsheet and didn't do the appropriate sanity check. You're correct: the times should be 1/10 of what I listed. I'll edit my post to avoid distracting future readers. The question remains -- is there an effective way to combine the batteries?
I would also double check your calculated loading on the P624 as it seems low.
In my opinion your only real choice is to add more batteries. I have 50 aH of batteries on my system (the panel and 2 aux supplies) and about to add another 26 aH to give me a true 24 hours of battery backup on EVERYTHING (large system and adding the new battery for a few things I will add over the next couple of months).
In reality you really want to keep your panel, at least one keypad, and anything to do with life safety (smokes, CO Detectors etc) up and running for 24 hours. Many of the other items you can shed after 4 or 5 hours if you choose to. You will get trouble conditions if you shed devices and that can be annoying at 2 am. I chose to keep everything up and running for 24 hours but for burg and automation it is not really required. Remember you dont need battery backup on the M1XSP that controls lighting.
ELK recommends a max 18 aH battery on the M1. Admittedly I use the 26 aH and if I ever get a very deep discharge (has not happened yet) I may need to charge it with a seperate charger. With about 800 ma standby load on my panel I run over 24 hours easily on battery backup. I have similar loading on my aux supplies with about the same battery backup.
Here's how I calculated the typical on the P624:
- 4 M1XSP @ 0.03 amp typical == 0.12 amp
- 1 M1XRF2G @ 0.07 amp typical == 0.07 amp
- 4 M1KP2 @ 0.03 amp typical == 0.12 amp
- 3 M1KPAS @ 0.03 amp typical == 0.09 amp
- 2 M1DBH @ 0.00 amp typical == 0.00 amp
- 5 ASD200 @ 0.01 amp typical == 0.05 amp
giving typical 0.45 amp total. Alarm status adds 0.06 amp to each keypad, 0.01 amp to each arming station, and 0.07 amp to each smoke detector, giving alarm total as 1.06 amp. The WSV (1.0 amp), the fireplace (0.38 amp) are short-term only.
Am I missing something?