Help Understanding UPB with Leviton and SimplyAutomated

[toddr]

I'm trying to get my head wrapped around automation via UPB.  Currently I have a Leviton OmniPro II.  I think I would like to add some outlets and switches to further some automation efforts via UPB.  In order to accomplish this, it was suggested that I need the following, but would like some verification.
 
I have two breaker panels.  I will to install a SimplyAutomated Phase Coupler (ZPCI-B) in each panel.  I would also need to install a Leviton Phase Coupler (39A00-1) in the main panel and a Leviton split phase repeater (39A00-2) in the second panel.  I would use a SimplyAutomated UMC-DB9 to program the devices.
 
There are a few things that I do not understand, though.  
 
1)  Why would I need two phase couplers in each panel (one panel would have two, the other would have one phase coupler and a repeater).
 
2)  How would this connect up to the OmniPro.  I'm missing something.
 
3)  Does anyone have any recommended reference materials on this topic.  I've read a few things on various websites, but I'm not sure if I'm reading the "right" stuff.
 
Thanks.

 

[ano]

Simply Automated devices only support the UPB Gen 1 standard. This is because licensing Gen II and Gen III from PCS costs money, and Simply Automated didn't want to pay.  Gen 1 switches do not support a repeater, in fact it will cause problems.  Leviton switches are Gen III, which add some additional features, one being repeater support. Leviton switches also support HLC mode that the Omni can support. That's not to say Simply Automated switches don't support HLC, its just more difficult.
 
So I would suggest pick either Gen I with Simply Automated couplers, or select PCS, Leviton, or Gen II Web Mountain switches (which are Simply Automated switches reprogrammed with Gen II firmware) and the use a Leviton or PCS split phase repeater. You probably won't need and phase couplers. 
 
The Omni Pro II connects to the powerline with the Leviton 36A00-1 and the cable that comes with it. It's Gen III.  You also should get a PCS or Simply Automated serial PIM to use UPStart on a PC. If you use ALL Leviton switches the panel can program them, so technically you don't need UPStart, but for most purposes you do.
 
You need to do some planning before adding couplers for a problem you might not have.
 
As for references, Worthing has a great one on HLC, which is Leviton's modified UPB.  You can download it here: http://www.asihome.com/ASIshop/manuals/test/Worthington%20HLC%20Training.pdf
This document talks about couplers, but it was written before the Split-phase repeaters appeared.

 

[pete_c]

Thank you Ano for the post.
 
Wondering if it should be a sticky?
 
I mentioned in another post that I have a PCS and a SA phase coupler.  They are in off mode and I have left the HAI repeater on.
 
Question:  Is there a way to tell if the phase couplers are inverting and non-inverting type? 
 
I know I have asked this question before and I know you have spent much with your old/new UPB endeavor.
 
I am getting ready to pull the cover off the fuse panel to remove some stuff in it....including the two phase couplers.
 
I did google and the responses mostly went back here to Cocoontech and an SA blog which quoted the Cocoontech forum.
 

 
BTW Welcome to Cocoontech toddr.
 
@Ano; back to the OP....what would you recommend to toddr for his endeavor?

 

[mikefamig]

I think it might help you to learn how the UPB system works as a stand alone system before concerning yourself with attaching it to the HAI control. Each switch in a UPB system is capable of sending links that control any or all of the load type devices in the system. In other words a rocker switch can be programmed to turn on one or more lights in any room of the house as long as those lights are attached to UPB switches or outlets. The programming is done by attaching your pc to an outlet in the electrical system via what they call a CIM.
 
As far as repeaters and couplers I would install one coupler at the main load center in the house and see how it works. My system works with no coupler but I installed one because it is recommended by SA and will help prevent future problems.
 
Mike.

 

[ano]

Question:  Is there a way to tell if the phase couplers are inverting and non-inverting type?

 
This is one of those urban myths I don't think anyone has solved. What I believe, and this is only hearsay, so anyone correct me if you heard differently. 
My first experience is with SA couplers, and I believe their first ones were inverting couplers. Basically a simple capacitor that connects the two phases and passes high frequency UPB signals but not low-frequency 60 hz. signals. (That wouldn't be good) 
 
Life was good for many, but people with their transformer far from the house weren't benefiting from this, so Simply Automated created their non-inverting coupler. As far as I know, they are the only one to make these, and they seem to favor them.  They also claim with these, you can add more in parallel. These work, they say, if your transformer is further from your house. I have never taken one apart and have no idea how they work, but I'm guessing a transformer reverses the phase. A guess.
 
I believe Simply Automated is the only company that makes both, inverting and non-inverting, so if its not SA, then its inverting. If it is SA, then check the part number. I believe you should only use an inverting coupler with a repeater, which is the only kind HAI and PCS make. 
 
These are the urban myths as I understand them. Your mileage my vary.

 

[toddr]

Thanks for the input guys.  
 
The document that Ano provided looks like a really good reference.  I've went through some of it and plan on reading the rest this evening.  Also, thanks for the explanation of the different generations of UPB and recommended/example config. 
 
PeteC - Thanks for the welcome, since installing my OmniPro earlier this year, I've been learning a lot from this site.  Always good to get community feedback from people that are working with the products as a user and not just a sales person!
 
Mike - I agree, I need to learn more about UPB (hence me asking for recommended learning materials).  I did plan on working with it as a stand-alone, but didn't want to invest in stuff that was incompatible or not needed with the Leviton/HAI OmniPro.  I would rather do it right the first time, then continue throwing money at it.  That's one reason I'm looking for more educational materials and asking questions first.  I want to make sure when I start going to purchase things, I ensure I can accomplish what I want now and support the growth in the future.  My main focus over the past few days is understanding the "core" of UPB/HLC.  It really threw me off when someone said (and I may have misunderstood them) I needed 2 SA phase couplers and the Leviton Phase coupler and the Leviton Split Phase repeater.  I couldn't understand why I would need all four devices!  That's when I decided to ask the question on here.   Thanks for your comments.

 

[ano]

I think it might help you to learn how the UPB system works as a stand alone system before concerning yourself with attaching it to the HAI control. Each switch in a UPB system is capable of sending links that control any or all of the load type devices in the system. In other words a rocker switch can be programmed to turn on one or more lights in any room of the house as long as those lights are attached to UPB switches or outlets. The programming is done by attaching your pc to an outlet in the electrical system via what they call a CIM.
 
As far as repeaters and couplers I would install one coupler at the main load center in the house and see how it works. My system works with no coupler but I installed one because it is recommended by SA and will help prevent future problems.
 
Mike.

That is a very good point. There are actually three aspects to learn about UPB. the physical aspects on how the signals go through the powerline, with couplers, repeaters, etc.  Then there is understanding how basic UPB standalone works, and UPB, unlike many other standards work just fine without a central controller.  then finally learn how Leviton build HLC on top of UPB to add even more features. 
 
If you have an OMNI controller, you really need to understand the benefits of HLC, before discounting it and going straight UPB, but the problem is that it is hard to fully understand HLC until you undestand all about basic UPB. 
 
I guess i learned the hard way and discarded HLC initially in my last house and went with Simply Automated.  It was only after doing all that where all the benefits of HLC became apparent. In my current house its all HLC. 
 
As a bit of a high-level overview, Leviton HLC works best when you use all Leviton switches and room controllers and house controllers.  Overall i would say it will cost you more since the leviton stuff is slightly expensive, but in the end, if you do it right, you'll have the same systems they use in multi-million dollar houses. 
 
Using basic UPB alone gives you lots of flexibility, but in the end, probably doesn't let you do more than HLC, but you can do it at cheaper prices. Maybe HLC will be 40% more than UPB in the end. 
 
What i like about HLC is that in each room you are now controlling scenes, not switches. I almost never touch the switches anymore. Just press the room scene controller buttons. The bigger your house, the nicer it is, but in even in my smaller house, its nice.

 

[Desert_AIP]

I disagree with ano that using Simply Automated switches is more difficult. 
The only difference is no auto programming. 
But once you get your system past simply turning on a single light fixture with a single switch, you're going to want to modify the individual switch programming in UPStart anyway. 
 
Plus, by manually programming the switches, you gain a much better understanding of how the system works. 
 
Here is is everything I've learned about HLC and UPB on the Omni. 
Some of this is very advanced. 
 
http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/26748-upb-configuration-into-ominpro/