home automation for a newbie Zigbee vs Zwave vs hardwired

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Guys I'm looking at getting into some home automation my first task will be to automate our lighting. I want to be able to control lights in our hallways, kitchen, living room, and garage for starters. My ideal situation would be to have it sit up to where when a car pulls into a garage after a certain time lights in the house and garage would come on. Or I could have it after a certain time lights come on lets say 6pm daily eventually I will work the HVAC system into the equation. However I'm looking at two technologies Zigbee and Z-Wave which are wireless bases systems I keep seeinginformation on Z-Wave but I've not found much on Zigbee so my question for you all which technology is better Z-Wave or Zigbee. Also I've not seen much in the terms of wired systems whne I say wired I winder can this be done over CAt5 since my home is already wired for ethernet. so far I've read good things about the CentraLite wireless Jetstream system who has it here and what technology does it use? I think CentraLite uses Zigbee but I'm not sure
 
Hi alhabanks, welcome to CocoonTech!

If you want it 'NOW', then go Z-Wave. I wouldn't invest in ZigBee Pro (supporting the Home Automation profile) until more hardware is available. There is some ZigBee Pro hardware now which is compatible, but it's pretty expensive, and I don't know of any affordable Home Automation controller (hardware or software) which supports ZigBee Pro, so you couldn't even interface it if you wanted to.
 
I'm doing exactly what you are talking about. You can read alot about Zigbee, zwave, hardwired, etc. They all have pluses and minuses.

I decided to go with Leviton Vizia RF+ (z-wave). The reason I went with Leviton is I wanted to go with a standard manufacturer and a standard switch. I was able to replace single pole switch with a Vizia RF+ switch. Three or four way swithes are replaced with a Vizia RF+ switch and 2 or 3 Vizia RF switches. The Vizia RF switches do not have the zwave but only cost about $10. This allowed all the switches to work like standard non-automated switches immediately after I installed them. Therefore, my wife was happy and I was under no pressure to get the automation going. I got the Leviton controller with timed events to do the initial automation. My outside lights come on at dusk and off at 11pm.

I am in the process of installing an HAI Omni for security and automation. I just got the garage door sensors working. The HAI does support z-wave via the Leviton interface. I hope to get that going today or tomorrow. With that working when the garage door opens the lights in the garage and entry will go on automatically.

After that who knows but I will keep automating as time goes on.

The one negative I have found is large pieces of metal like a car can block the z-wave signal. Also, the Leviton switches are not cheap. On the positive if I sell the house and the owner does not want automation, all the switches will still work as normal.
 
I just got back from CES where I had a chance to speak with both the ZigBee Alliance and the Z-Wave Alliance. The two technologies have almost nothing in common although they are both being used for home automation. Z-Wave is here today and I think they have something like 300+ devices, if memory serves me correctly. That is good, but I will caution you that Z-wave is a proprietary protocol with only one company making the chips. ZigBee is completely different, uses standards, many companies are making chips and products, but like a big truck picking up steam, it takes a long time to get going. I think, if memory serves me, they are reporting 145 products.

Which Z-Wave is very focused, home automation, ZigBee is very wide, with applications from smart meters, and lighting control to security, healthcare, even as a replacement for IR in remote controls with the RF4CE standard.

So picking between the two is easy now, Z-Wave lets you build a whole system, where ZigBee at this stage is just a bunch of pieces and ideas. Still, I think long-term, ZigBee is going to become a major part of home automation because it is a real standard and many companies feel safer using it than proprietary Z-wave. But as I said, at this point ZigBee only has enough pieces for some specific applications through some quite expensive systems, so you can't walk into Home Depot and buy ZigBee switches, at least not just yet. Wait a year or two, however, and I think that will change.

As always, if you are building a system TODAY you can't worry about all that. Home automation stuff is like anything else, whereby the stuff you buy today will be obsolete in a few years, that is just how it is. So to build a full system today, use Z-wave or UPB. But don't be surprised if in 5 years from now your wondering, what was I thinking back in 2011 when I did this. That is just how technology works.
 
Paul I see you are using the Leviton gear Leviton is a decent name however do you know of any other good companies that make Z-Wave gear. Also I'm confused what switches did you purchase for 10 bucks because the Leviton Vizia's light switches are around 70.00 plus. Also what type of controller are you using for all of these I've looked at HomeSeer and the vera from casaverde. Also you stated that your switches worked without automation software I thought all of these switches would work as normal by that I mean if I install it than flip the switch I expect for the light to come on I'm not getting the standard nonstandard switch part. I asked about a controller to me when I think of a controller I'm thinking of a piece of gear that ties everything togetherand something that can be accessed via the web either software that runs on a computer or an appliance like the vera.
 
Paul I see you are using the Leviton gear Leviton is a decent name however do you know of any other good companies that make Z-Wave gear. Also I'm confused what switches did you purchase for 10 bucks because the Leviton Vizia's light switches are around 70.00 plus. Also what type of controller are you using for all of these I've looked at HomeSeer and the vera from casaverde. Also you stated that your switches worked without automation software I thought all of these switches would work as normal by that I mean if I install it than flip the switch I expect for the light to come on I'm not getting the standard nonstandard switch part. I asked about a controller to me when I think of a controller I'm thinking of a piece of gear that ties everything togetherand something that can be accessed via the web either software that runs on a computer or an appliance like the vera.

You are correct the Vizia RF+ (note the RF=z-wave) switches are around 70.00 plus. I was typing to fast. The $10 switches are Vizia coordinating remote, I should have left off the RF. Sorry.
What I was talking about is in situation where you currently have 3 or 4 way switches. Let's take a 3 way situation where there is a switch at the bottom of the stairs and another at the top of the stairs. The switch at the top of the stairs feeds the load (light fixture). So I replace the switch at the top of the stairs with a Vizia RF+ switch but I still want the switch at the bottom of the stairs to work manually. So I replace the switch at the bottom of the stairs with a Vizia coordinating remote which cost around $10.

I'm using a Leviton VRCPG-BSG as the primary controller and I also have a HAI OmniII PRO acting as my standalone security and automation system controller. You can do a lot of reading in this forum as to why to use something like HAI or ELK as a controller. You wil also find that many of the HAI or ELK users still also have something like HomeSeer or some other freeware running on a computer acting as the high level controller. If you are not interested in security then I would be looking at something like HomeSeer or one of the others, IMHO.

Another supplier of zwave switches is Cooper. I would do a search for zwave products, you'll find lots of listings. Also, you can go to www.z-wavealliance.org

I am not an expert. So, my comment about the switches working without automation was just something you should possibly keep in mind while doing your research. I agree with you that I think most switches of the automation switches also work manually. I am too much of a newbie to know about ALL possible switches. Also, I never researched how other manufacturers of automated switches handle retrofitting 3 or 4 way lighting situations. So my comment was mostly something for you to think about or maybe someelse will comment.
 
It looks like there is a ZigBee PRO interface out there, supporting the Home Automation profile. In fact, this product also supports INSTEON and X10, which makes it rather interesting:

[url="http://www.simplehomenet.com/proddetail.asp?prod=ZigBee_INSTEON_X10_Interface"]ZBPLM - ZigBee/INSTEON/X10 Interface[/url]

SimpleHomeNet also announced a 30A ZigBee PRO HA relay, with energy monitoring support:

[url="http://www.simplehomenet.com/proddetail.asp?prod=ZigBee_JenNet_6LoWPAN_Switch_Energy_Meter"]ZBMLC30-2 - Dual (30/15A) Relay with Energy Meter[/url]

While not cheap, it's good news for us waiting for the ZigBee Home Automation profile to become more widespread.
 
So is the ELK its on security solution like an ADT setup? I ask that because what if you already have a security system that you want to bring into the home automation picture I assume there has to be some sort of device that you can use as sort of a bridge to integrate an existing home alarm into the automation picture. Actually I use apx as my home security system and my go control panel is already z wave ready however with that said I don't know how to integrate it in
 
ELK is a security controller first, home automation controller 2nd. Unfortunately, most basic alarm panels such as the ADT ones, were not designed with home automation in mind, so it's pretty difficult to interface these. Assuming your panel isn't using wireless sensors, you could probably swap it out with a panel which supports home automation, such as the ELK M1, ELK M1 EZ8 (its little/cheaper brother), HAI OmniPro II, 2GIG Go! Panel (Z-Wave only), GE CaddX (older panel, doesn't support newer tech).
 
It looks like there is a ZigBee PRO interface out there, supporting the Home Automation profile. In fact, this product also supports INSTEON and X10, which makes it rather interesting:

ZBPLM - ZigBee/INSTEON/X10 Interface

SimpleHomeNet also announced a 30A ZigBee PRO HA relay, with energy monitoring support:

ZBMLC30-2 - Dual (30/15A) Relay with Energy Meter

While not cheap, it's good news for us waiting for the ZigBee Home Automation profile to become more widespread.
I'm hoping to get my hands on a few of the ZigBee units so I can integrate them into MistherHouse. I have the ZBPLM but I haven't started playing with it yet.
 
If you find other hardware which supports the ZigBee Home Automation profile, please do share ;)
 
As soon as I can figure out what that means I will :)

At the moment there appears to be little available but I see it everywhere. :blink:

ZigBee and Z-wave are a bit different in that respect. If you buy a Z-Wave switch, you know it will respond to Z-Wave lighting commands because that is what Z-Wave does. Just like X-10, Send out an X-10 A1 On command and the light goes on.

ZigBee is not that simple. ZigBee is a much broader, be all to everyone solution. Where Zensys created the Z-Wave spec to do what exactly it needed, ZigBee is a public spec built by committee. There is no question that this is the MUCH SLOWER approach to getting devices out there, but it also means there is so much more it can do.

ZigBee itself is an RF mesh network standard similar to Wi-Fi. It just gets the bits from point A to point B. This is where the Home Automation Profile comes in, it explains what the bits mean, and how to actually turn on a light. Without that part, this control would be proprietary which would be a bad thing.

With ZigBee we are nearing the home stretch. We have the ZigBee standard, ZigBee chips, we have the Home Automation Profile, and now we are getting switches and devices that work with the profile. And now the final step.... Drum roll please... Controller and controller software like MisterHouse, CQC, HomeSeer, HAI, ELK, etc. need to start incorporating ZigBee control into their products. Control4 has and others are slowly following.

ZigBee has taken a long long time to arrive, but I think once it really does, it will be worth the wait.
 
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