Home Automation Questions

[JTR7]

Hello,

I've got a few questions regarding home automation.

My goals are:
1. Control the lights in the house via remote.
2. Receive emails when indoor temperature drops below a certain temp. It would also be nice to know if the controller switched to battery power.
3. Security isn't very important, but I guess it could be nice.

The house is completed already. Unfortunately, I missed the big chance to put in structured wiring when the basement was opened up. However, it's one floor with attic access so if need be I can crawl around up there. Because of the way the basement is finished, I can get wires pretty much everywhere, I think. I'd like to know more about sound distribution. If I could get speakers in the eaves of the roof on the deck, that'd be awesome.

I was considering going with AT&T remote monitor, but then I realized what home automation could do. This is a summer home, so the main goal is to know if the power goes out and temperature drops. Last winter the pipes froze, and I just sunk 20k into our basement in a house I spend 3 weeks of a year at. I then saw the HAI Omni LT. The house definitely doesn't need an OmniPro II. Omni IIe might be overkill. As far as lighting, how can I use the Omni LT for control? Is there any expandability? Or should I get the Omni IIe? Are there solutions from others that would better suit my needs? I kinda want to use this house as proof of concept to the boss that it's worth doing at the full-time home.

I'm not sure on the house's exact dimensions, but it's 5 bedrooms, 2 baths (I know, strange number), 2 floors including finished basement, one 25'x15' TV/Bar room in the basement, one 25'x15' combined living room/dining room upstairs, a 12'x12' kitchen, and a deck. The only future expansion I'd be interested in is lighting distribution, and MAYBE putting 2 speakers in the eaves on the deck and 2 speakers in the cieling in the upstairs TV/Dining. The floorplan upstairs is very open so one in TV one in Dining should work. I'd love to do speakers in the basement room too, but I'm not sure I'd be able to fish it without destroying the drywall.

If I were to guess, I'd say it's about 25'x40' per floor. But that includes 5 decent size bedrooms, and a utility room. Only the common living space really needs the automation. In the back of the house, we have a bedroom turned office with a large closet. It sits directly above the utility room. I'm debating on whether to attempt the most daring fish ever from the basement to the attic or just to put the controller in that closet with any necessary accessories.

Oh, and are there any attractive HAI compatible UPB keypads anyone? All the ones I see look goofy. I think the HomeWorks ones look really nice. Even the Insteon ones don't look too bad.

 

[Rupp]

Hello,

I've got a few questions regarding home automation.

My goals are:
1. Control the lights in the house via remote.
2. Receive emails when indoor temperature drops below a certain temp. It would also be nice to know if the controller switched to battery power.
3. Security isn't very important, but I guess it could be nice.

The house is completed already. Unfortunately, I missed the big chance to put in structured wiring when the basement was opened up. However, it's one floor with attic access so if need be I can crawl around up there. Because of the way the basement is finished, I can get wires pretty much everywhere, I think. I'd like to know more about sound distribution. If I could get speakers in the eaves of the roof on the deck, that'd be awesome.

I was considering going with AT&T remote monitor, but then I realized what home automation could do. This is a summer home, so the main goal is to know if the power goes out and temperature drops. Last winter the pipes froze, and I just sunk 20k into our basement in a house I spend 3 weeks of a year at. I then saw the HAI Omni LT. The house definitely doesn't need an OmniPro II. Omni IIe might be overkill. As far as lighting, how can I use the Omni LT for control? Is there any expandability? Or should I get the Omni IIe? Are there solutions from others that would better suit my needs? I kinda want to use this house as proof of concept to the boss that it's worth doing at the full-time home.

I'm not sure on the house's exact dimensions, but it's 5 bedrooms, 2 baths (I know, strange number), 2 floors including finished basement, one 25'x15' TV/Bar room in the basement, one 25'x15' combined living room/dining room upstairs, a 12'x12' kitchen, and a deck. The only future expansion I'd be interested in is lighting distribution, and MAYBE putting 2 speakers in the eaves on the deck and 2 speakers in the cieling in the upstairs TV/Dining. The floorplan upstairs is very open so one in TV one in Dining should work. I'd love to do speakers in the basement room too, but I'm not sure I'd be able to fish it without destroying the drywall.

If I were to guess, I'd say it's about 25'x40' per floor. But that includes 5 decent size bedrooms, and a utility room. Only the common living space really needs the automation. In the back of the house, we have a bedroom turned office with a large closet. It sits directly above the utility room. I'm debating on whether to attempt the most daring fish ever from the basement to the attic or just to put the controller in that closet with any necessary accessories.

Oh, and are there any attractive HAI compatible UPB keypads anyone? All the ones I see look goofy. I think the HomeWorks ones look really nice. Even the Insteon ones don't look too bad.

Welcome to Cocoontech. All of the major players in the HA software will do your to do list. I'm a HomeSeer user so I'll slant my answers to that platform.
#1 - Simple but it depends on which remote you are desiring to use. I use a few of the old X10 palm pad remotes to control lights and events. I also have one of the Insteon remotes which works the same way. Simply setup your switches and the beauty of using HomeSeer is you can use all the major protocols at the same time. So you could use your X10 remote to control your UPB devices, Insteon devices, X10 devices, Z-Wave devices, etc.

#2 - This can be accomplished in many ways, I have some one-wire temp sensors scattered around the house that HomeSeer reads, I also have some wireless temp sensor that my RFXCom hardware receives, you could also use an automated thermostat and setup events to trigger when the temp reaches a certian temp. I have HomeSeer send me a text message for many events, low temps is one of them, leaks is another, etc.

The second part of your question - I use a free plugin that runs within HomeSeer that monitors wheater my server is running on UPS power and if it is it sends me an email and text message.

#3 - HomeSeer has plugins for nearly every automated security system including the Elk, Caddx, DSC, the list goes on and one. Drop on over to http://www.homeseer.com and download a 30 day trial and give it a whirl and let us know if you need any other help or information. Also be sure to check out the HomeSeer message board, it's one of the most active boards on the web about home automation.

 

[jwilson56]

I do things like what your talking about and I live in an older home with wet plaster walls so I used wireless sensors with my Elk system tied into Girder. Take a look at my blog for more information and diagrams.

Many solutions exists such as what I used or Homeseer, CQC and probably the new Elve

Wireless works very well for door and window sensors. I use the NX-650 model and have never seen a false action with one in a couple years. I like the Lithium batteries that last several years.

 

[JTR7]

That sounds nice. Do you use the surface mount or recessed contacts? I like the idea of recessed contacts, and I could probably wire them pretty easily. All but one entrance door is on the first floor, so if I do what I plan and shoot wires all over the attic, I could get to both doors quite easily.

For audio, does anyone have experience tying a distribution system like Niles or Russound into their Elk system? I know that the only HAI system to support audio distribution is the OmniPro II, and I'm not crazy about spending $900 over the Omni LT just to do audio. I've heard that Elk is more of a build-your-own controller board with a lot of expansion cards.

 

[Rupp]

That sounds nice. Do you use the surface mount or recessed contacts? I like the idea of recessed contacts, and I could probably wire them pretty easily. All but one entrance door is on the first floor, so if I do what I plan and shoot wires all over the attic, I could get to both doors quite easily.

For audio, does anyone have experience tying a distribution system like Niles or Russound into their Elk system? I know that the only HAI system to support audio distribution is the OmniPro II, and I'm not crazy about spending $900 over the Omni LT just to do audio. I've heard that Elk is more of a build-your-own controller board with a lot of expansion cards.

For audio, many HomeSeer users use the Russound hardware with the Russound plugin to control their whole house audio system. This way they can send their text to speech messages to particular zones in the home. I personally use separate sound cards to distribute sound to separate receivers. This way I can send my wake up messages to my kids rooms for example but I send callerID messages to all zones in the house.
The ELK system is one of the better security systems but can be over kill for many. There are many good systems for a fraction of the cost of the Elk systems. The DSC, Ademco, and Caddx systems are very affordable systems.

 

[pete_c]

Welcome to the forum.

I'm a Homeseer Pro user, HAI and recently purchased a "legacy" Russound system (2 of them). Currently all three systems "talk" to each other.

My HSPro, Russound and HAI panel can each function independant of each other and do fine.

Elk M1 and HAI OmniPro series of panels are "security panels on steroids" or more regarded as Security and HA panels today then plan security panels. If you want to be able to do automation with pure HW then these two panels will accomplish that. The software piece is the "cake" on the icing. They both do their HA jobs well. The "warm and fuzzy" is to know that these two panels are primarily rooted as security panels.

Both offer plug n play automation in HW. Today I utilize HAI keypads, HAI touchscreens, Russound Keypads and HS touchscreens. I am more into function than aesthetics though.

My home is divided into 8 primary audio zones, now 4 more Russound audio zones (12) and each bedroom (4) serves as its own subzone with local sources of audio. Lately stream audio from standalone/working with server boxes and into media tanks lately.

I have a friend with a home (about 8 years old now) in Estes, CO. Its an all year round back and forth vacation home. I suggested an automated panel for him. (he had a similiar issue that you had with freezing pipes).

Personally if you just starting with HA; just do the lights first. Think about what methodology you want to use. Try the software/remote hands on stuff first; see if it does what you want it to do. Other than the switches and controller you can test/try software for free.

Its the least expensive and will give you a taste.

 

[JTR7]

OK. What Russound system did you purchase? I was originally trying to find one compatible with their RNET so I could see iPod songs on the keypad, but that's less of a priority now.

I've given this some thought.

I'm pretty set on the Omni LT now. There's no reason to go with the Omni IIe or OmniPro II. I don't need my sound system integrated up there. We don't even have a land line up there now. And since it's a summer home, there's no need to make wake up calls that way.

My main goal is to get an Omni LT, an OmniStat, a Temperature sensor, and some software product so I can manipulate the thermostat remotely. IE, I normally set the thermostat at 50 degrees on the heat setting while I'm away. Once a winter, I go up to check on the house. I'd like to be able to set the thermostat before I leave the full-time home so it's at 70 when I get there. During the summer, I don't want to go up there to find that it's 90 degrees in the house. I've got an old laptop, or I could even purchase a netbook to sit up there if I had to plugged into the HAI board to send me emails in the event of a battery power switchover or if the temperature drops too low.

Audio distribution is another big deal. I want about 3-4 sources, including radio tuner. I was originally trying to find a system from Niles or Russound that allows me to control my iPod from the keypad. Turns out, those are expensive as can be. I really don't want to spend more than $500-$600 on audio distribution. I've got a 300 disc changer, I want to use the radio, and I've got an iPod that still works with the exception of the center button of the click wheel. So I can put that in a dock and leave it there to hold all of my and my kids iTunes music. I'm not including speakers in the cost. Keypads are included. I'll have no more than 4 zones. There's the deck zone, the TV/dining area, possibly the basement (though I'm not quite sure how I'd get the wires down there for speakers and a keypad. I have an amazing set of Bose speakers that can fill the whole house with sound. Right now, I'm using a 15 year old Technics stereo in the basement powering a massive pair of Bose speakers), and maybe the office bedroom. If I were to do the office bedroom, I'd probably just use a cheap pair of bookshelf speakers anyway.

Lighting seemed a cool idea. If I end up spending more time up there, it seems like an awesome idea. For instance, I'd love to be able to set up humidity sensors in the bathrooms and if it gets too humid to turn on the exhaust fans (stupid kids never bother). But right now, not so much. I'd rather divert focus to the full-time home's automation. On that note, anyone know of a good way to interface my Harmony remotes with HAI UPB lighting?

So I guess my questions are this:
What's a good, not too expensive audio distribution system, preferably with built-in AM/FM tuner and iPod support?
Are there any flaws with my plan, or is there a better way to do this? It's a decent sized home, I did the math, it is about 2000 square feet of finished living space.

 

[pete_c]

OK. What Russound system did you purchase? I was originally trying to find one compatible with their RNET so I could see iPod songs on the keypad, but that's less of a priority now.

I purchased used CAS44's with no RNET support for around $200. I purchased new KPL/KP4 keypads. Think you'll be able to find good deals on new Russound or nearly new. Nuvo makes a good product too.

I have but do not use iPods. (gifts).

Sounds like you have a budget of sorts ($600 audio plus HAI stuff) - what's your budget number?

 

[JTR7]

Haven't really set a number. I know I don't want to go over the top on the audio. I like the idea of the "wow" factor for guests when I can manipulate songs from the deck. I definitely like the sound of that CAS44, but the no RNET support is kind of a killer. Does the CAS44 have built in tuner? Do the CAS44 keypads support IR? I guess if I got a used Harmony 880 or 890 from eBay I could use that for changing the songs. I've tried to figure out from Russound's site what's their cheapest RNET compatible product. Oh, by the way, where'd you find the CAS44?

The automation is another thing entirely, to me at least. I'd have liked to have integrated the two, but to spend another $900 over the LT to get the Pro to integrate with the controller is too far. Since I won't have touch screens, the only benefit would being able to control the thing from my laptop at the deck table, again solved with a Harmony remote. I really need something in the line of a system to email me if the temperature drops. I'd like to have future expandability. I plan on retiring there someday. Lighting control then would be useful. Even now tossing in a UPB switch here or there isn't too much. The basement was a pit before the water damage. The damage was just a good excuse to get it finished right. Now I've put quite a bit of money in it, I'd rather not have to do it again.

EDIT: I should mention, I'm not tied into Russound. I just noticed that when looking at an OmniPro II controller manual. And, I only mentioned Niles because I've got a friend whose whole house is controlled by Niles. He's got more money than God though, so he can afford to have dozens of their $500 remotes.

 

[Rupp]

So JTR are you looking for a controller? If so check out the HomeTroller that comes with HomeSeer loaded here:

http://store.homeseer.com/store/X-P589C81.aspx

 

[pete_c]

Does the CAS44 have built in tuner?

No.

Do the CAS44 keypads support IR?

Yes

I guess if I got a used Harmony 880 or 890 from eBay I could use that for changing the songs. I've tried to figure out from Russound's site what's their cheapest RNET compatible product. Oh, by the way, where'd you find the CAS44?

I have a Harmony 880's - don't recall when I purchased it though - a while ago (Amazon specials). The two CAS44's I purchased appear to be new (maybe just sitting around - but not dusty inside or out, work well, no scratches) - one for $168 and the other for a bit under $200 - on Ebay.
I actually found a deal for new (old stock) KPL's for about $60 each. Purchased KP4's new for a bit more.

What made you decide on an OmniLT versus an Elk M1? The M1 would email you (I think) if you wanted it to.

 

[JTR7]

Not much really. It was easier to discern its features. It also seemed more geared toward automation whereas the M1 seemed thoroughly security centric. Does the M1EZ8 directly support email or do I need the M1EXP ethernet expansion card?

What is HomeSeer and what do I need it for?

 

[Rupp]

Not much really. It was easier to discern its features. It also seemed more geared toward automation whereas the M1 seemed thoroughly security centric. Does the M1EZ8 directly support email or do I need the M1EXP ethernet expansion card?

What is HomeSeer and what do I need it for?

http://www.homeseer.com
HomeSeer is a software package that runs on an always on PC that can do just about any automation that you can imagine. It has built in web access that would allow you to access for example, cameras, thermostats, temp readings, etc. It has built in email that can email your pictures from cameras, temps, voice mail, etc. You can check out my HomeSeer web pages here:
http://RuppWorld.com you can also access my weather system that is connected to HomeSeer here:
http://weather.ruppworld.com/
Login is guest/guest
A few of my cameras are off line because I'm replacing them.

 

[JTR7]

That seems cool, but I don't see my need for it. I'm really looking for something inexpensive. I don't need a $1000 controller. I just want something that will monitor/interface with temperature sensors/control and with future lighting expansion. I don't even see myself using it for security really. I won't have motion sensors, and I won't have cameras. That's why I feel the Omni meets my needs without being too costly. If I don't have to spend $1000 to get what I want, why bother? I'd rather save the money and put it toward a better audio distribution system. BTW, I'm strongly considering the CAS44, if I can find it at the right price on eBay. I'd love a CAM6.6. MCA-C5 keypads are the nicest looking, in my opinion, but that's too current to be anything short of $1000, unless I can find somewhere where one fell off a truck. ;-)

I looked into the M1. It requires the ethernet expansion thing to email me, and the ethernet expansion thing requires the serial expander thing on the M1EZ8. I couldn't find the serial expander thing. That's one of the reasons I like the Omni. It's fairly pre-packaged. I'd need the Omni LT, Web-Link II or similar software, and an old computer.

 

[sic0048]

You can always add an automation controller (like Homeseer, CQC, Elvie, etc) at a later point in time if you find that the HAI is lacking feature that you need.