But the question is: if you were starting anew would you go with a shelved HAI Omnipro or find something new? I think I have to pay the piper and go control 4. I don't know how it integrates with an alarm system. I think Honeywell but I didn't see traditional alarm systems on their site recently. Just a shame because you are right it sort of compressed to worse options. Simpli Safe? Oy!
Home Automation - the home will outlast its brain - then what ?
- Thread starter swb_mct
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If I were to move, I would keep my current components and transfer them to the new house. There is no benefit of leaving the old tech behind for the new owner, but for myself I would not hesitate to restart with HAI. Elk is the closest system in terms of functionality to OP and definitely cheaper than Control 4. I am using the old Elk with Honeywell sensors only for passing their status to the HAI panel. Honeywell security panel is ok imo for just security, but it is significantly less "user friendly" and programming it is a pain comparative to Elk/HAI.
I started with a couple of wi-fi lights and it was great. Now that I have 8 of them, every one keeps "forgetting" the settings periodically and need to be "re-configured". Pretty much standard situation with anything that is wireless, only works for a handful of items, but forget the whole house suitability.pete_c said:
Your confusion was thinking this is somehow related to cell mobile systems.Frunple said:
5G uses a much faster technique and can support very short packets (very short preambles and overhead) saving energy for battery operated devices. WiFi cannot do that. Bluetooth was a flop in the HA area, with it's poor distances and very slow speeds.
5G supports speeds up to Terabits per second, for the future wants and needs. Dozens of mobile service providers share the same bandwidths to thousands of mobile phones and still beat WiFi speeds on each cell phone.
We already have WiFi that spans large areas in many cities and they are not shared with your LAN WiFi. 5G can do it much better for a HA installation. It could obsolete all existing RF style HA protocols and be as reliable as any wired network.
We still have 10Mbps Ethernet and 55Mbps WiFi hanging around too.
OTOH, 3G mobile has been removed from the cell towers here, and that didn't take more than a few years after 5G was launched. When the young adult market is convinced it wants something, there is no limit to the money available and old technology, more than a year old, gets tossed quickly.
Watch for 5G, or likely a similar protocol with a new name, on future routers. I have a tri-band router now already capable of 4Gbps using the 5GHz band shared with aviation radar systems. Of course it will take years for the old devices to fade away.
pete_c
Guru
Yes just relating to the security the Ring Alarm system does have an auto default to a cellular with the included $10 per month fee such that you have an internet failover over connection.
A few years ago did this manually for the home LAN / WAN using PFSense failover to a cellular combo modem with a battery. That said though if the internet in general debends you are SOL and then just dependant on the at home automation which works as long as you have AC power in the house.
Relating to modded WiFi switches it is more MQTT that I am interested in as it is sort of an update xAP ethernet topology that I like.
Personally and I have mentioned this before the OmniPro panel (like the Elk panel) are like the old bakelite telephones built to last forever.
I did have an issue with using a "bad" development revision of firmware for one WiFi configuration switch. It did reset my WLAN stuff and I did have to JTAG it again which wasn't much of a deal. BUT the whole avenue of firmware to get this stuff off of the cloud involved both hardware / software modes which isn't easy button stuff.
if you were starting anew would you go with a shelved HAI Omnipro or find something new?
Really that is a personal decision. If you have your panel working fine with whatever mechansions you add to update transport / applications et al then really it is no work to continue to utilize it. IE: today mine works with MQTT, Alexa, TTS et al and I am a happy camper.
I left one combo panel in one house when I sold it. That said left manuals for it and home purchaser removed it all anyhow. Next took the panel and all low voltage wiring out (at a cost) as most if not all that saw it had no clue about it. A few years ago a peer passed away (RIP) and was doing much automation and security in his home and writing software. His wife asked me to help with the house after he passed and I did. That only lasted a few months and she had me remove it all. She was very dependant on her husband and became a sort of lost soul when he passed away.
A few years ago did this manually for the home LAN / WAN using PFSense failover to a cellular combo modem with a battery. That said though if the internet in general debends you are SOL and then just dependant on the at home automation which works as long as you have AC power in the house.
Relating to modded WiFi switches it is more MQTT that I am interested in as it is sort of an update xAP ethernet topology that I like.
Personally and I have mentioned this before the OmniPro panel (like the Elk panel) are like the old bakelite telephones built to last forever.
I did have an issue with using a "bad" development revision of firmware for one WiFi configuration switch. It did reset my WLAN stuff and I did have to JTAG it again which wasn't much of a deal. BUT the whole avenue of firmware to get this stuff off of the cloud involved both hardware / software modes which isn't easy button stuff.
if you were starting anew would you go with a shelved HAI Omnipro or find something new?
Really that is a personal decision. If you have your panel working fine with whatever mechansions you add to update transport / applications et al then really it is no work to continue to utilize it. IE: today mine works with MQTT, Alexa, TTS et al and I am a happy camper.
I left one combo panel in one house when I sold it. That said left manuals for it and home purchaser removed it all anyhow. Next took the panel and all low voltage wiring out (at a cost) as most if not all that saw it had no clue about it. A few years ago a peer passed away (RIP) and was doing much automation and security in his home and writing software. His wife asked me to help with the house after he passed and I did. That only lasted a few months and she had me remove it all. She was very dependant on her husband and became a sort of lost soul when he passed away.
TristateUser
Member
Wifi and cloud storage (for example, for video surveillance) works great when there is connectivity. The problem is they depend on too many systems beyond your home.
In general, the RAS (reliability, availability and servicebility) of the system goes down if it relies on internet or wifi to function. I think, ideally you want a completely self-contained autonomous system, preferably with wired point-to-point interconnect between all critical components, that is internet accessible via both cellular and ISP/cable networks.
BTW, is there any notion of RAS for home automation systems? Anyone talks about it?
In general, the RAS (reliability, availability and servicebility) of the system goes down if it relies on internet or wifi to function. I think, ideally you want a completely self-contained autonomous system, preferably with wired point-to-point interconnect between all critical components, that is internet accessible via both cellular and ISP/cable networks.
BTW, is there any notion of RAS for home automation systems? Anyone talks about it?
TristateUser
Member
picta said:
Yes, I agree that local storage is cheap. An ideal minimalist solution would be local storage with cloud backup.
Cloud provides storage at a secure remote location so that someone can't walk away with your drive. Some added perks of cloud services include data archival, event detection, object (vehicle, person, etc) identification, event filtering and notification features. Of course, you can build and maintain your own equivalent custom solutions.
pete_c
Guru
Looking out there at what is happening relating to utilizing the cloud et al.
I am in a pesimistic mood this morning. A bit of a "old" kermungeon.
It's really just an "Easy Button" solution. No knowledgebase of the "grey areas" are needed these days if you have a smart phone and cloud appliance at home and it is a real money maker for ISPs and cloud providers and appliances.
While I do tinker with cloud connected / WiFi connected devices I still mainly trust my wired devices with no dependences on the internet.
I am in a pesimistic mood this morning. A bit of a "old" kermungeon.
It's really just an "Easy Button" solution. No knowledgebase of the "grey areas" are needed these days if you have a smart phone and cloud appliance at home and it is a real money maker for ISPs and cloud providers and appliances.
While I do tinker with cloud connected / WiFi connected devices I still mainly trust my wired devices with no dependences on the internet.
True home automation is a very rare thing and I don't think that is going to change for a long time. There are simply too many variables for a "plug and play" system to work well. For the average consumer today's "automation" is really just a bunch of cloud based devices that are loosely tied together. This is obviously a recipe for disaster on the reliability and security fronts.
Going back to the OPs situation, I would recommend never building a home that has any of it's main systems (HVAC, lighting, network, etc) specifically designed for an automation system. I would build the house wired to regular standards and then add the automation system. While this may reduce the number of possible solutions (especially on the electrical side of things), it assures that the system can always be ripped out or upgraded to a future solution without any issues.
So if I was the OP, I would try to work on getting the house wired correctly if possible. That doesn't mean you have to hook up the newly pulled wires and remove the existing lighting system. The new wires can just be in the box for any future use if needed. Personally I have enough skills to do that DIY, so that would be my approach. Otherwise, I might start saving up money over time to end up paying for the project.
Going back to the OPs situation, I would recommend never building a home that has any of it's main systems (HVAC, lighting, network, etc) specifically designed for an automation system. I would build the house wired to regular standards and then add the automation system. While this may reduce the number of possible solutions (especially on the electrical side of things), it assures that the system can always be ripped out or upgraded to a future solution without any issues.
So if I was the OP, I would try to work on getting the house wired correctly if possible. That doesn't mean you have to hook up the newly pulled wires and remove the existing lighting system. The new wires can just be in the box for any future use if needed. Personally I have enough skills to do that DIY, so that would be my approach. Otherwise, I might start saving up money over time to end up paying for the project.
TristateUser
Member
LarrylLix said:
BTW, why do you need Tbps speed network for home automation, except for video surveillance? A QoS guarantee in the order of 10s or 100s of milliseconds in latency will suffice, right? That should be easily achievable with a relatively slow speed *dedicated* network with only sensors and switches. The google Nest Protect (smoke/CO alarm) is using such a dedicated network to talk with other monitors in house; interestingly even the wired version of Nest Protect is not using the common interconnect yellow wire.
