Homerun lighting wiring for Square-D/Centralite Prep

[broconne]

Building a new house here. I plan on using OnQ/ALC for lighting. But since I am building I was hoping to have the most future flexibility possible.

I have asked the builder to price out prepping for Square-D or Centralite by home running the electric lighting. However, the electrician wants to meet with me - I am guessing because he will have a few questions, so before I meet with him I wanted to have some answers to give him.

1) If you pre-wire for centralite/square-d (anything that uses a centralized system with remote keypads) how exactly do you prepare for that and meet code. I assume in my case I would be asking that all electric that goes to lighting start from the basement so it would look like this:

Breaker Panel -> (Some sort of enclosure that allows him to star off to each switch/light combo) -> Switch -> Light. Then if I went with square-D or Centralite, I would just wire the HV at the switch using wirenuts to bypass any switching and then break apart the wires in the enclosure and place the the centralite control panel there with control wires from the switches.. is that accurate?

What do I tell him to use for "some sort of enclosure that allows him to star off to each switch/light combo?


Also, centralite says you need a 6 conductor wire for the switches - would cat5 work? I am planning on running cat5 to the switches - but I don't want to run another 6 conductor wire as well.

 

[Kevin L]

I'm not sure why you would have a problem with the code or inspection. I didn't when I built my home in 2007. I went with a Centralite LiteJet system (didn't do the entire home). Electrician ran all the loads the to LJ panel and then wired the panel from the breaker boxes. Passed inspection without a problem.

I ran Cat 5 to all the keypad locations.

HTH,

Kevin

 

[broconne]

I'm not sure why you would have a problem with the code or inspection. I didn't when I built my home in 2007. I went with a Centralite LiteJet system (didn't do the entire home). Electrician ran all the loads the to LJ panel and then wired the panel from the breaker boxes. Passed inspection without a problem.

I ran Cat 5 to all the keypad locations.

HTH,

Kevin

I am trying to pre-wire for the possibility of LJ. In other words, there will be no LJ panel for him to wire things too. The question is, what can I put in place of an LJ panel, so I could possible use one later.

 

[Herdfan]

[I am trying to pre-wire for the possibility of LJ. In other words, there will be no LJ panel for him to wire things too. The question is, what can I put in place of an LJ panel, so I could possible use one later.

How do you plan on controlling your lights in the mean time? Are you wanting to loop all HV runs to a central point before going back out to regular switches?

 

[broconne]

[I am trying to pre-wire for the possibility of LJ. In other words, there will be no LJ panel for him to wire things too. The question is, what can I put in place of an LJ panel, so I could possible use one later.

How do you plan on controlling your lights in the mean time? Are you wanting to loop all HV runs to a central point before going back out to regular switches?

Yes. They could loop to a central point or simply start from a central point before going to the switch - would have to be all home run.

But, I am not sure what to tell the electrician to use as that "central point".

 

[Kevin L]

[I am trying to pre-wire for the possibility of LJ. In other words, there will be no LJ panel for him to wire things too. The question is, what can I put in place of an LJ panel, so I could possible use one later.

How do you plan on controlling your lights in the mean time? Are you wanting to loop all HV runs to a central point before going back out to regular switches?

Yes. They could loop to a central point or simply start from a central point before going to the switch - would have to be all home run.

But, I am not sure what to tell the electrician to use as that "central point".

I'm sure you understand they're going to charge you more for all this extra wiring. As far as the mechanics of it, choose where you want your Centralite panel to be and loop everything there. You'll have to run HV and LV wire/cable to all switch locations, and they have to be separated.

I imagine you're not doing the system now because of cost, but you're adding cost and complexity doing it your way. Hardwiring is the most reliable, but there are reliable new systems, like JetStream that can be done on an as needed basis. That's what I did and am doing. I did 24 loads on the LiteJet, and am now investigating how to do the rest.

Kevin

 

[broconne]

[I am trying to pre-wire for the possibility of LJ. In other words, there will be no LJ panel for him to wire things too. The question is, what can I put in place of an LJ panel, so I could possible use one later.

How do you plan on controlling your lights in the mean time? Are you wanting to loop all HV runs to a central point before going back out to regular switches?

Yes. They could loop to a central point or simply start from a central point before going to the switch - would have to be all home run.

But, I am not sure what to tell the electrician to use as that "central point".

I'm sure you understand they're going to charge you more for all this extra wiring. As far as the mechanics of it, choose where you want your Centralite panel to be and loop everything there. You'll have to run HV and LV wire/cable to all switch locations, and they have to be separated.

I imagine you're not doing the system now because of cost, but you're adding cost and complexity doing it your way. Hardwiring is the most reliable, but there are reliable new systems, like JetStream that can be done on an as needed basis. That's what I did and am doing. I did 24 loads on the LiteJet, and am now investigating how to do the rest.

Kevin

Yes - there will be an upcharge I am sure for all the homerun of the wiring. I am just unsure at this point, how much that upcharge will be.
I have already figured in the LV runs to all light switches which is coming in at $40 a run - so not too bad from an LV PoV.

As I mentioned at the start of this thread I am looking to pre-wire for a few reasons.
I will probably go ALC/OnQ which only needs the CAT5 - but if ALC/OnQ goes out of business in 5 years it would be nice to have an alternative and the rest of the alternatives require a homerun of HV which is why I am pricing out prepping for it now and not running centralite now.

 

[Herdfan]

I will probably go ALC/OnQ which only needs the CAT5 - but if ALC/OnQ goes out of business in 5 years it would be nice to have an alternative and the rest of the alternatives require a homerun of HV which is why I am pricing out prepping for it now and not running centralite now.

There are several other options out there. ALC is popular on this board, but there are at least 5 other large lighting companies that can do HR plus CAT5 for keypads. Most recommend their own wire, but CAT5 will work.

Let me ask you this, if you just run a HR loop to a central point, what are you going to do with the 2, 3 & 4 gang boxes you are going to have in the house as part of the regular non-HR lighting system? Are you going to pull them out and fix the drywall. What if ALC/ONQ goes out of business AFTER you put the system in? Are you going to leave the other wires there in the wall in case you need to access them again?

Set aside the ALC/ONQ product for a moment and descibe what you initial lighting plan is and your future lighting plan is. My guess is that it will be cheaper and easier to do it right the first time.

 

[86turbodsl]

Building a new house here. I plan on using OnQ/ALC for lighting. But since I am building I was hoping to have the most future flexibility possible.

I have asked the builder to price out prepping for Square-D or Centralite by home running the electric lighting. However, the electrician wants to meet with me - I am guessing because he will have a few questions, so before I meet with him I wanted to have some answers to give him.

1) If you pre-wire for centralite/square-d (anything that uses a centralized system with remote keypads) how exactly do you prepare for that and meet code. I assume in my case I would be asking that all electric that goes to lighting start from the basement so it would look like this:

Breaker Panel -> (Some sort of enclosure that allows him to star off to each switch/light combo) -> Switch -> Light. Then if I went with square-D or Centralite, I would just wire the HV at the switch using wirenuts to bypass any switching and then break apart the wires in the enclosure and place the the centralite control panel there with control wires from the switches.. is that accurate?

What do I tell him to use for "some sort of enclosure that allows him to star off to each switch/light combo?


Also, centralite says you need a 6 conductor wire for the switches - would cat5 work? I am planning on running cat5 to the switches - but I don't want to run another 6 conductor wire as well.

As someone who researched, spec'd, purchased and installed a Centralite Litejet 48 last year, I can say with confidence that all the extra effort you're going to to prep for this install will cost you more than just installing it in the first place.
Find the money or just wire as normal and run a Cat5 to each switch location and do in-wall dimming.

The litejets are no longer sold by Centralite. They've moved on to the Elite and Elite48 or something like that. It's set up more like the Elegance is. I believe Worthington has deals on the remaining stock of litejet right now too.

 

[felixrosbergen]

With regards to the concern on OnQ/ALC's viability, isn't there several other products that work similarly than ALC and can be used instead when you wire HV as per normal but run an extra cat5 to all the switch locations? I thought i heard this but would like to see confirmation.

It sounds like prepping for Centrlite but not actually installing it is more expensive than going all in. If the costs are a concern the extra cost of prepping for ALC would be much lower and it would seem a solution that easier to roll out/expand as the budget allows.

I haven't started my installation yet, but i have cat5 or conduit (depending on the situation) to all switch locations on the ground floor. For the upper floor all the walls are easilly accessed from the attic so i'll drop in cat5's to those locations later.

It's hard to swallow and explain to the wife when all the money is 'in the walls' and you don't have functionality to show for.

 

[jlehnert]

RE: The ongoing viability of OnQ/ALC.

I gotta admit that when I got into automation, I had questions about ALC and a single source solution. Now multiple years later, ALC is still around and OnQ seems to be going strong. Theoretically, Legrand could pull the plug tomorrow, but I really don't see that happening. Some other technologies have come and gone, but ALC is still here.

 

[broconne]

I will probably go ALC/OnQ which only needs the CAT5 - but if ALC/OnQ goes out of business in 5 years it would be nice to have an alternative and the rest of the alternatives require a homerun of HV which is why I am pricing out prepping for it now and not running centralite now.

There are several other options out there. ALC is popular on this board, but there are at least 5 other large lighting companies that can do HR plus CAT5 for keypads. Most recommend their own wire, but CAT5 will work.

Let me ask you this, if you just run a HR loop to a central point, what are you going to do with the 2, 3 & 4 gang boxes you are going to have in the house as part of the regular non-HR lighting system? Are you going to pull them out and fix the drywall. What if ALC/ONQ goes out of business AFTER you put the system in? Are you going to leave the other wires there in the wall in case you need to access them again?

Set aside the ALC/ONQ product for a moment and descibe what you initial lighting plan is and your future lighting plan is. My guess is that it will be cheaper and easier to do it right the first time.

Good questions. I could drywall over the switch plates I don't need anymore.

My number one goal is automation of lighting. Turning off all lights when going to bed, when the alarm is armed, etc.
Scenes - I understand are important - but I am not sure how important they will be to me. However, I could see them becoming more important if I started using them.

 

[broconne]

RE: The ongoing viability of OnQ/ALC.

I gotta admit that when I got into automation, I had questions about ALC and a single source solution. Now multiple years later, ALC is still around and OnQ seems to be going strong. Theoretically, Legrand could pull the plug tomorrow, but I really don't see that happening. Some other technologies have come and gone, but ALC is still here.

I would be happier if there was another solution that did in-wall dimming with cat5 for just control.

But, i guess if they go out of business I could try and buy up a bunch of switches at a bargain price

 

[Herdfan]

My number one goal is automation of lighting. Turning off all lights when going to bed, when the alarm is armed, etc.
Scenes - I understand are important - but I am not sure how important they will be to me. However, I could see them becoming more important if I started using them.

Those are "scenes." Some people think os scenes as having 4 differnt light levels for different moods, but in reality scenes can be any set of lights you choose to turn on with a given button. When I go to the basement in the evening, the button that turns on only the lights I want is a scene. A nice light level in the kitchen to cook by is a scene and brighter lights to clean up is a scene.

 

[Herdfan]

I would be happier if there was another solution that did in-wall dimming with cat5 for just control.

But, i guess if they go out of business I could try and buy up a bunch of switches at a bargain price

There is. Lutron will do in-wall dimming and it can, but it is not recommended, use CAT5. Lutron does have special wire that is 600v rated so it can go in the box, but it is just a pair of 22g wire same as CAT5.