How good are wireless sensors & ELK M1?

Sendero

Active Member
I've been looking at this for a while and am now really on the verge of taking the leap into a home security system. The main thing holding me back at this point is the wiring part of it. I just moved into a new home and the idea of cutting & patching drywall is really not appealing to me.

The house is pretty good size (3700sqft) and I'm wondering if thats an issue for the wireless sensors. To me, it seems like such a major PITA to run wiring for what I current see as :
2-3 motion sensors
9 window sensors
3 glass break sensors
2 door sensors
And thats only for downstairs. If I have an ELK I'd probably want to add some temp sensors and even motion sensors upstairs to give me more capabilities through CQC.


Also, whats the 'best' location for mounting the Elk itself? I have an upstairs closet with my audio dist/sonos equipment in it and I'd probably put in at least a 36' enclosure there (probably in the wall to make it easier to put in a conduit to the attic). The only thing with that is that I'd have to run wiring up to the attic, over about 20', and then down another conduit to the crawlspace and then to wherever I install keypads.

Alternatively, are there any recommended contractors in the Seattle are who would do the wiring? I guess if I did that then I'd still have to patch the walls though, huh?
 
The house is pretty good size (3700sqft) and I'm wondering if thats an issue for the wireless sensors.

The ITI (Ge/Caddx) wireless sensors that work with the M1G are very good. They have very good range and long battery life. If your house is 3700 sf divided between two floors I don't think range would be a problem.

That said, especially as pertains to motion sensors, you don't have as much of a choice when you limit yourself to wireless.

Wired is always better performance and costwise than wireless. When I initially wired my home with a Caddx system I ran as much as I could with wire and installed a few wireless sensors for places like my lower level french door that I just could not get to.

If you can get around in your attic you can wire thermostats, keypads, speakers, sensors, etc pretty easily. Putting the control panel in your AV distribution closet sounds good - and I would recomment the largest cabinet you have room for. 36" isn't bad, but you may find you need more room as time goes by. While I'm not keen on the idea of a cabinet in the crawl space, you could put a zone expander or two in a box down there and then you only need one cable from the M1G to the remote zone box and short runs to zones fed by it. You can even put a data buss hub down there and run your keypads to that location.

You might try to hire an installer on the side to install some wire for you - it's the hardest part of installing a system - and they know all the tricks and have the special tools to do it. You might be surprised what they can do without any damage :)
 
And the price difference is astonishing :)

Wireless devices are expensive:
window and door contacts = $35-50 each vs $2-5 for wired
glass breaks = $100 each vs $25-35 for wired
PIR = $85 to $115 each vs $15-50 for wired
smoke detectors = $60-90 each vs. $15-50 for wired

There are also far fewer wireless choices compared to wired - especially when looking at smoke and heat detectors, and PIRs.

Just as carry 15+1 has suggested, for the additional cost of wireless, you could probably pay a professional to wire the components. Then you'll have the benefit of the wired hardware for the same approx cost. Of course there will some runs that just can't be wired and that is when wireless is applicable (it's better than nothing after all).
 
Hmm, hadn't done the calcs on cost diff. From those estimates it's a min of $700 more for wired vs wireless just on the 1st floor. I guess the next step is to find a local contractor and get an estimate.

Can someone recommend a good installer in the Seattle area?
 
carry15 said:
If you can get around in your attic you can wire thermostats, keypads, speakers, sensors, etc pretty easily. Putting the control panel in your AV distribution closet sounds good - and I would recomment the largest cabinet you have room for. 36" isn't bad, but you may find you need more room as time goes by. While I'm not keen on the idea of a cabinet in the crawl space, you could put a zone expander or two in a box down there and then you only need one cable from the M1G to the remote zone box and short runs to zones fed by it. You can even put a data buss hub down there and run your keypads to that location.
It hadn't even occured to me you could do that with putting the expander in a diff location. Is that just the M1XIN that I'd get? I have no worries really about wiring in some things upstairs such as motion detector and temp sensors. The main thing I'm worried about doing myself is the window & door sensors.


I'm thinking my system is looking like this to get started:
M1G KS
M1XP - Lighting/Thermostat interface (I have Insteon already and TR40 therm on the way. May stick with CQC for Insteon but this gives flexiblity)
M1XIN - 16 Zone Input Expander
M1KP2 2nd keypad for bedroom
48" wall enclosure

Plus:
Temp sensors (are there less $$ ones than the ELK ones? I only care to add in 1 external + 2 upstairs ones. )
Window sensors, probably wired at this point
Smoke alarms (min of 8)
Motion Sensors (3 downstairs, 2+ upstairs)


I'm sure once I start playing with it or designing more I'll come up with more things.
 
FYI:
ELK will be releasing a new GE/Caddx compatible Radio Receiver, M1XRF, for the M1 and EZ8 Controls hopefully in February. The M1XRF Radio Receiver gives the M1 family the capability of receiving 144 wireless zones. Up to 13 receivers may be placed on the M1 data bus for large buildings and signal redundacy. Multiple receivers can receive the same transmitter and each receiver sends the received data back to the M1 or EZ8 for processing.

It comes in a plastic box for remote mounting and has dual antennas for elimination of dead spots.

The M1 and EZ8 will still support the GE/Caddx NX-4xx RF receiver with up to 48 RF zones through a different software download.
 
Crawl space under you first floor makes installation easier. The trick will be to find a place for you equipment box that allows access from the attic to the crawl space. Closets work well because they are on the inside walls which are hollow. If you have a print of the framing it makes the job easier.

A nice feature of the Elk M1G is that you can have the zone extenders away from the main panel. You could have the panel on the main floor and run only one 4 wire cable to the attic where you can place the zone input expander that is wired to the zones on the second floor. I have wireless zones also and they seem to work just fine. Once in a while you get to a place that you can't get to there from here and you have to use a wireless zone.

The M1G can also be used for home automation with the addition of either X10, Zwave or etc. From experience(3 houses now) using the panel to turn off and on lights, fountains and etc, really makes the home nicer to live in. If you want to go further you can add Thermostats that can turn up or down the heat(or A/C) when you come and go, then there is the Architectural lights. As you can see the list goes on.

There are always features with "I wish I could do that" and with a little thought you probably can.

Cliff s
 
Spanky said:
ELK will be releasing a new GE/Caddx compatible Radio Receiver, M1XRF, for the M1 and EZ8 Controls hopefully in February.
Is Elk intending to get into the transmitter/sensor side of thing also? Does the M1XRF support anything that the GE/Caddx NX-4xx doesn't?
 
Spanky said:
M1XRF Radio Receiver gives the M1 family the capability of receiving 144 wireless zones. Up to 13 receivers may be placed on the M1 data bus for large buildings and signal redundacy.
How do you divide 144 zones by 13 receivers? If you assume overlap then how many zones can one receiver actually handle?
 
I believe one receiver is capable of 144 zones but you can have redundant receivers for wider coverage. Mainly commercial applications probably since a typical receiver covers a typical house in many cases. There are always exceptions.
 
It is nice that the exception will be covered. I have the caddx one and have had no issues (mounted in the attic).
 
Spanky said:
FYI:
ELK will be releasing a new GE/Caddx compatible Radio Receiver, M1XRF, for the M1 and EZ8 Controls hopefully in February. The M1XRF Radio Receiver gives the M1 family the capability of receiving 144 wireless zones. Up to 13 receivers may be placed on the M1 data bus for large buildings and signal redundacy. Multiple receivers can receive the same transmitter and each receiver sends the received data back to the M1 or EZ8 for processing.

It comes in a plastic box for remote mounting and has dual antennas for elimination of dead spots.

The M1 and EZ8 will still support the GE/Caddx NX-4xx RF receiver with up to 48 RF zones through a different software download.
Spanky:

What is the status on the M1XRF? I was just about to buy the NX416 till I read this.

LMK.

Thanks,
Derek
 
It is nice that the exception will be covered. I have the caddx one and have had no issues (mounted in the attic).

While there is nothing wrong with the Cadxx receivers you know the guys at ELK "HAD TO" one up them. ;)

From what I heard through the grapevine the ELK Receiver is "Sweet".
 
Sendero said:
It hadn't even occured to me you could do that with putting the expander in a diff location. Is that just the M1XIN that I'd get? I have no worries really about wiring in some things upstairs such as motion detector and temp sensors. The main thing I'm worried about doing myself is the window & door sensors.


I'm thinking my system is looking like this to get started:
M1G KS
M1XP - Lighting/Thermostat interface (I have Insteon already and TR40 therm on the way. May stick with CQC for Insteon but this gives flexiblity)
M1XIN - 16 Zone Input Expander
M1KP2 2nd keypad for bedroom
48" wall enclosure

Plus:
Temp sensors (are there less $$ ones than the ELK ones? I only care to add in 1 external + 2 upstairs ones. )
Window sensors, probably wired at this point
Smoke alarms (min of 8)
Motion Sensors (3 downstairs, 2+ upstairs)

Window sensors will be more difficult than doors. On my doors I drilled straight up into the attic through the top jam and used recessed sensors. I have casement windows which are the worst. I won't bother explaining how I did them - it's too involved.

I would suggest you put pretty near every detector on it's own zone. The exception might be a multi-pane window where you could put 2 or 3 sensors on a single zone.

If you go with 2-wire smokes they must ALL go one zone #16. If you go with 4-wire smokes you can put them all on separate zones if you wish. Using separate zones makes for quick identification in case of an alarm. If the keypad says Fire Master Bedroom - rather than FIRE - you don't need to run around trying to see which smoke detector is in alarm. Also, with 2-wire smokes you need to stick to the ones listed in the Elk manual, with 4-wire you can pretty use any brand/model.

If you want to do something via RULES in the M1G you need to use either their remote temperature sensors, one of the keypad sensors or your thermostat, you cannot use something like a 1-wire temperature sensor with Rules.

Don't forget you need 4 conductor cable for 4-wire smokes and motion sensors, remote temperature sensors etc. I suggest #22 guage and 4 conductor throughout.
If you're in an area with building codes check into firewire requirements for your fire alarm devices.

I used cat5e to all my keypads and speakers with some wires doubled up for power.

Don't forget to run wires for outside siren/speaker, armed/alarm indicators, etc.

Your 48" cabinet sounds great, two would be even better ;) One of my cabinets has video distribution and CCTV camera power and modulators. Another cabinet has the M1G, batteries, and most terminations for automation. A third will house my HomevisionPro controller and all my zone expanders.

Stub BIG pvc conduits up (and down if necessary) allowing for future cables.

There are a lot more tips on this board.

John
 
To followup on this, here is where I stand right now:

Items purchased:
ELK M1G w/M1KP, Serial Expander, Insteon PLC
NX448 wireless receiver (thanks Spanky!)
2 M1XIN Input Expanders
3 Addt'l M1KP (+ the one in original purchase)
10 Bosch Blue-line motion detectors
48" Leviton Enclosure
5 NX-458 Wireless Transmitters (realized that 2 of the places I wanted to use them wil not work so I have two 'spares')
5 NX-454 Wireless Micro Door sensor (bought on E-bay and only 3 seem functional, but total cost was only $50 so still OK with that)
5 NX-488 Wireless Glassbreak sensors ($200 total on E-bay, brand new in box)
Miscellaneous install parts
M1 Two way kit
Elk Ethernet adapter
2 Echo Sirens
2 M1DBH

Items Installed so far:
M1G in can
Ethernet adapter
M1DBH's
sensors for doors & windows
motion detection downstairs

Things I learned:
The wireless is very cool. Nice and quick to install.

A local installer talked to me for 30 mins on the phone and advised me that for the windows & doors I was looking at, it would be 2 guys for a day and a half at $60/hr. The cost of that came out to more then the wireless sensors.

You have to enroll the M1XIN and not just 'add' a new on in ELK RP to have it work (wasted at least an hour trying to figure out why the sensors were never 'ready')

The ideas and grand plans are a lot bigger than the amount of time I have to implement them :lol:

For can's the Leviton 42 is only for the ELK. I have a 30-something already installed for my satellite, phone, and networking. I had upgraded that during construction from a 14" but am now thinking of pulling it out and putting in at least a 42 if not a 50 there as well.

For smokes, I'm not yet sure that I am going to move those over to ELK yet. I may do it later, but that seems like a whole lot of work.
 
Back
Top