How to drill hole from basement ceiling to floor above?

[SnyperBob]

Wikipedia:

Installer bits are available in various materials and styles for drilling wood, masonry and metal.

A variant of the installer bit has a very long flexible shaft, up to 72 inches (1.8 m) long in the US, with a small twist bit at the end. The shaft is made of spring steel instead of hardened steel, so it can be flexed while drilling without breaking. This unique design allows the bit to be curved inside walls, for example to drill through studs from a light switch box without needing to remove any material from the wall. These bits usually come with a set of special tools to aim and flex the bit to reach the desired location and angle, although the problem of seeing where the operator is drilling still remains.

 

[beelzerob]

Petec, are all your touchscreens driven by their own PC? And if so, what are those "mini" PCs you mention. Are they very low power? I now have 2 touchscreens, and while one will be hooked up to my master PC, the other just needs to be able to run small client software. I'd rather find a low power PC in a small form than use another full PC.

 

[CollinR]

Can somebody explain how the process works with the 72" flex drill bit from above?

How do you put pressure on it to drill through what i assume to be a 2x4 on the flat on top of the floor if the drill bit is flexibile. Maybe i'm just not understanding how this works.

You start by marking the bit for depth with whatever you like, I use electrical tape because I have loads of it. I mark it 4" beyond the floor or ceiling. Begin on the interior drilling straight into the wall wherever the device will be installed, once through the first lasyer of drywall bend the shaft so the side of the bit cuts the drywall to about a 45* angle. Now simply push the drill bit in either up or down and keep going until it hit something solid. Check your mark to see how far from the attic or basement you are with luck the mark is reasonably close to the hole how. As soon as the bit bites in it will continue going without much pressure, remember to pull back and let it self clean. Once it pops free go in the attic/basement and look to see if you can find it and it's in the proper location. If all is well tape your wire to a glow rod and insert that to follow the bit, or you can attach the wire directly to the shaft or bit and pull that.

 

[sic0048]

You can also check your local wiring supply shop. They make extremely thin "drill bits" which are more like small stiff wires that you can use to drill down through the floor and find the location in the basement. Measure over what ever distance you need to make sure you end up in the wall, and then drill your normal hole. Basically it is the technique that will40 and Snypez discribe in their posts. The test hole will not be visable if it is carpet, and it really will be unnoticable even on hardwood floors because the hole is so small (basically the size of the end of a unfolded paperclip)

 

[felixrosbergen]

With these flexible bits isn't it very likely that the hole end up not in the center of what i assume should be a 2x4 on the flat but rather end the side rubbing up against the inside of the drywall? Guess i'm just having a hard time visualizing ...

 

[brotsten]

I cut the hole for whatever is going in first, to give more working room. I use the right angle tool that is made for these drill bits, it holds the bit on the inside of the wall, through the hole you made, and allows you to control the alignment of the bit.

Brian

 

[aehusted]

If all is well tape your wire to a glow rod and insert that to follow the bit...

I really like the glow rod idea! I am more of a mirror and flashlight guy, but now I know what to do with all the little glow stick earrings that I just found at the bottom of a party supplies box in the basement

The other great answer to the seeing-behind-the-walls problem is to use a digital video camera. Most of the newer ones have a "nightvision" mode that is really great for these situations. While the digital zoom on these things generally looks like crap, it is just fine for finding wires and holes in tight spaces.

 

[Sandpiper]

Can somebody explain how the process works with the 72" flex drill bit from above?

How do you put pressure on it to drill through what i assume to be a 2x4 on the flat on top of the floor if the drill bit is flexibile. Maybe i'm just not understanding how this works.

I have several of these bits and have done this quite a few times. I can tell you that it can be done, but, for me is the last choice if I can do it any other way. Drilling up from below, or down from above, is much easier and faster if you have access.

There are several problems....first, the bit wants to go firm up against the drywall, so when you start drilling, the bit slips into the drywall and drills through it, or even worse, whatever is behind the drywall. If this is not a concern, go for it. Putting pressure on the bit is not hard, the bit will almost pull itself through anyway. You dont want too much pressure, as the bit will tip sideways and go someplace bad. Secondly, once the hole is drilled and the bit is pulled back, it is usually a *itch trying to hit that same hole again with the glass rod feeding the wire.

If someone has a better way, I'm all ears.

 

[pete_c]

beelzerob,

On a bit of a tangent (segway) relating to original topic....

I am using mini 1.3/4 512Mb pcs to drive small touch screens. These have mini 1/2 size 20 Gig HD's. I have also experimented with CF drives on these. They are 12V. Main floor touch screens have PC's mounted in the basement. 2nd floor PCs are mounted in the attic. I have a large attic with about 6-7 feet height in the middle. The power draw is minimal (<100 watts). I am using XP/2003 lite on these.

Also playing around with a "few" different automotive mini pc's - just purhased three different mini automotive PC's which could essentially be used the same way. These are all mini ITX and very small form factor.

1 - mini Epia ITX - 1.X Ghz CPU/1 Gig memory - very small case, low power and does a decent job on video. Testing now for touch screen.
2 - mini PC - dual core 1.8Ghz/2 gig memory - smallest of the bunch - essentially a mini mac. Put a digital mini PCI tuner in this one. Might be my multimedia center PC instead of my carpc
3 - Mini ITX - Intel - 3.X 478 Mhz CPU/1Gig memory. - Fits in a variety of small cases - most likely primary choice for CarPC.
4 - mini PC MB's - bought a "bunch" - and a couple of cases. These run too hot for the cases but with case are same size and #2. Currently using these for Touch screens with SpeedFan and new CPU fans to cools CPUs (1.3-4 Celerons).

Currently using a Mini Epia in an E46 bimmer for the last 3 years - runs well - works with lite XP - does Video, MP3, Internet etc.

In decending order on price: #4, 1, 3 and 2.


pete_c

 

[wkearney99]

If someone has a better way, I'm all ears.

There's a handle you're supposed to use with those bits. It BENDS the shaft to allow better alignment. You feed the auger bit into the hole, attach the drill, then use this handle to warp the shaft enough to position the auger in the center of the cavity. It takes a little finessing to get a good 'feel' for where the bit is in relation to the cavity in the wall. But it's not too hard.

Once you drill through the hole use another tool that's designed for those bits. There's a small hole in the end of the auger. It's there to let you clip a wire basket into it. You use that to PULL a wire back along with the auger bit. If you had enough access to where the bit is going you could also tape a line to the end of the bit and pull it through that way.

I use a DeWalt 18v cordless drill for this purpose, but not a regular one. I got a right-angled one a while ago and it's been, HANDS DOWN, the best tool for DIY home wiring. It's very handy when pulling one of those auger bits back down. The right-angle handle off the drill gives you just enough extra leverage to reduce the hassle. The trick then is to only use small bits of reverse and forward, while pulling, to get the auger back out of the drilled hole without coiling the hell out of the wire connected to it.

I just pulled several wires for an ethernet-connected thermostat and it went super-smooth having the 72" flexible auger, the wire basket (thingie, or whatever it's called) and some fiberglass rods. The rods were used to then run the wire through some spaces between some joists.

Otherwise your only alternative to getting a hole through the floor is to pull off a section of baseboard and cut a hole in the wall behind it. Then use a right-angle drill with a short forstner bit to get the hole started. Then use a longer bit to go the full depth. Again, this is one area where a right-angle drill is a tremendous timesaver.

The upside to the flexible auger is it'll also drill down through any cross-member 2x4's in the wall cavity. Just MAKE SURE you know what ducts, wiring or plumbing is inside those walls when you use a tool like this.

I suppose the greatest hassle is drilling a hole only to find the spot you chose goes into a joist or rafter. You can usually avoid this by eyeing up the exit surface (the attic above, or basement below) and seeing where other wiring, plumbing or lines of nails appears. 9 times out of 10 it won't be a problem. But when you're using the auger most of the time the hole isn't going to be more than 4-5" deep. So while you're drilling if you don't feel it 'give' and break through the material after that distance then you're probably not going through just the base of the wall and subfloor. Not a big deal most of the time, just don't swiss-cheese your support beams too much.

 

[GraysonPeddie]

Petec, are all your touchscreens driven by their own PC? And if so, what are those "mini" PCs you mention. Are they very low power? I now have 2 touchscreens, and while one will be hooked up to my master PC, the other just needs to be able to run small client software. I'd rather find a low power PC in a small form than use another full PC.

Here's an example of a mini-PC that I could build:

Motherboard: BIOSTAR A690G M2+ AM2+/AM2 AMD 690G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - $58.99
Processor: AMD Athlon X2 BE-2350 Brisbane 2.1GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 45W Dual-Core Processor - $84.99 (one core can work while the second core can sleep)
Memory: Kingston 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Desktop Memory - $39.99
Hard drive: Western Digital Caviar GP WD5000AACS 500GB 5400 to 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA-300 Hard Drive - $104.99 (although you may not need a lot of space, this hard drive saves power while providing good performance while reducing heat)
Video card: built-in to the motherboard
Sound card: built-in to the motherboard
Case: hec 7630BS Black/ Silver Steel MicroATX Desktop Computer Case 250W Power Supply - $47.99 (although I'm not sure if the 250w Flex ATX PSU is 80%+ efficient for Energy Star 4.0 compliance...)
OS: Your choice of operating system (example: due-to-release Windows Small Business Server 2008 during the second half of 2008. You could easily get away with an OEM version of Vista Home Prenium and run a client software or develop your own for home automation (and security if you have Elk M1 Gold or a higher-end security system).)

Total: $336.95 + shipping (without the cost of an operating system.

If there's a Western Digital 250GB GreenPower hard drive for $50 (or even 120GB GreenPower hard drive for $24) and if the price of the Brisbane BE-2350 gets down to $70, then this will be a very great ~$250 MiniPC!

You could even undervolt the 45w TDP dual-core CPU down to about 1GHz at 0.9 volts, since with a touchscreen, I don't think this will require a high-performance processor.

 

[pete_c]

The mini PC that I am using is a first gen 6"X6" mini pc with the following specs.
It was called an EZGo PC

1.3 GHz Intel Celeron Processor with cooling fan and heatsink
128 MB SODIMM RAM Module. Can be upgraded to a 256MB Module
On-Board Video, Audio, Ethernet, Modem, Power Supply
Connectors
2 - USB 1.0 Ports (Bios Supports Booting from USB Devices).
2 - Firewire Ports
9 Pin Serial Port
VGA 15 Pin Video
S-Video out
NTSC/PAL Composite Video Out
PS/2 Keyboard
PS/2 Mouse
Audio Line Out
Microphone Input
Ethernet 10/100BaseT
RJ11 Telephone Modem
Optical Drive Proprietary Connector
2.5" Laptop hard drive IDE connector, cable and tray
18VDC Power Input
External 18VDC Power Supply

Underpowered but it does the job and very small. Bought a number of these for under $100 and added HD's and upped memory to 256Mb.

They were sold as chasis only with power supplies. The processors run warm but can be cooled with a larger heat sink and fan. I did a group buy of two sets of these on the HS forums.

The specs you mentioned are decent. You might be able to get a smaller case.

The CarPC's that I have built cost around same but they are in small cases. Power draw is about 50 watts or so.

These would work fine for what you are looking for. Do an EZGO google search and you might find a few out there.

Here is a link you can try.

http://www.pillarcom.com/index.php?page=35

The mac like newest small form factor mini pc I purchased cost me a little bit more that what you have spent ...

The newest motherboard that I am playing with came from this place: http://www.mini-bird.com/ These are mini ITX versus micro ITX and are a bit smaller and would fit in a smaller case. It took a while to get it (couple of weeks) but worth it.

 

[beelzerob]

Thanks for the info guys! I'm going to have to hold off on a Tiny-PC hobby, though. Too much else to do...

These tiny-pc ideas should be in their own sticky thread....