Identifying Which Smoke Triggered The Alarm

[foxtail22]

A number of years back, I had an HAI Omni 2 that I replaced with the ELK M1G because of the modular expansion and easy to use rules support that the ELK offered. The ELK has worked fine for me but I do miss one capability that the Omni 2 provided regarding managing the smoke detectors. 
 
I have 4 wire smokes with a reversing relay to turn on the sounder on in all units when an alarm occurs.  The Omni 2 would disable the additional smokes on the first alarm reset and leave the one that caused the alarm remaining on which took a second reset to turn that one off.  Does anyone know if there is a way to connect the ELK up to be able to work in a similar fashion.  It was very helpful being able quickly find which detector set off the fire alarm.  I reused the smokes and the reversing relay for the ELK so that part remained unchanged.

 

[Del91574]

Look for the solid red light before the reset. You acknowledge the alarm at the keypad but don't reset until you find the culprit.
 
Did the OP have a 1:1 topology install or did you change something?

 

[foxtail22]

If I drop out the reversing relay but not reset the SAUX output will that drop all the other but leave the original one that triggered on?

 

[RAL]

You should be able to silence the alarm by entering your user code.  That will not reset the smoke detectors, so you should then be able to walk around and see which one caused the alarm.  Once you've done that, then do a smoke reset.

 

[foxtail22]

I should have mentioned that I am using 4w units with built in sounders.  I use a booming voice driver card to also announce the fire condition but do not use a panel driven alarm bell. 
 
I am trying to figure out a way to shut off all the smoke sounders except the one that triggered in the first place.  The Omni 2 used to do this but I am not clear how it did that but since I am using the same detectors, wiring, EOL supervision relay, and the reversing relay, it had to use some combination of the SAUX switched power and the control of the reversing relay.   I can use rules as needed to make the ELK do what is needed but I am trying to understand what is needed to make the smoke detector sounders operate this way.
 
I would have thought that deactivating the reversing relay would stop them all but maybe it does not shut off the sounder on the one that tripped in the first place.  Entering the code will reset the alarm but probably resets the SAUX output as well which may be why everything shuts off when I enter the code.  That may be why the Omni 2 worked(required two code entries to reset the remaining sounder) where the ELK resets it on the first code entry.  I could program a rule for a function key to deactivate the reversing relay and not reset the SAUX output until the code is entered to reset it.  If deactivating the relay but not resetting the SAUX output, is the answer to keeping the original sounder on, then I can chose a way to have the ELK do it.  Currently, when the code is entered, I have a rule that resets the Alarm, turns off All Smokes(deactivates reversing relay), and Turns off The Fire Voice.

 

[Del91574]

The Elk does not reset on the first action. It only acknowledges the alarm. You physically need to go through the menu to reset the detectors.
 
Your rule is negating the inherent functionality with the M1. Two rules needed.

"Whenever fire alarm turns on OR zone alarm conditional" turn reversing relay on.
"Whenever fire alarm cuts off OR zone alarm conditional" turn reversing relay off.
Those two would address when the reversing relay fires. No reversing relay, the tandem ring stops and the detector in alarm should be latched.
 
Your siren driver should have a temporal 3 sensitivity or direct input. Programming of the bell output on the M1 to voltage would address this. I think I'm missing the point of installing a secondary auxiliary siren driver when the M1's speaker output would handle this and give you a TON more options.

 

[foxtail22]

Thanks.  I think I understand it now.  I will reprogram and test.
 
Regarding the siren, I use a 3 channel ELK voice driver card that provides a loud voice messages for CO, Burglary, or Fire.  It does include a temporal siren and alternates between repeating the loud voice message and the temporal siren.  The voice driver card has it own speaker from the ELK system speaker.  The second one is much louder then the normal ELK system speaker and is designed so you cannot stand to ignore it.

 

[Del91574]

I would look at the speaker you have installed on the Elk. I've never had an issue with volume on the M1. Pay attention to impedance, that's what's going to affect your volume. The M1 has a bunch of benefits that can't be realized by installing a separate driver.

 

[foxtail22]

I heavily use the standard ELK speaker for many announcements including system messages, window and door violations, tasks that announce door closings, garage door status.  generator exercise on and off, water valve status, etc  I also use extensive email messages for other alerts such as low fuel oil, low batteries in automation motion detectors, etc.  The announcements using the main ELK speaker have the speaker volume set to provide a normal and acceptable level of voice.  The CO, Burglary, and Fire voice driver card with its own speaker is many times louder and designed to wake anyone, maybe scare off a burglar, and make it impossible to ignore because it is so loud.  I could do the same thing with the standard ELK speaker but I wanted very loud audio output for just these 3 alarms.  It was about the same price as a siren would have been so I went with the voice drive card approach.
 
I have a fairly large system with 48 input zones, 16 outputs, 3 smoke zones, CO, Network Card, and an integrated ISY994i with a 25 device Insteon automation network which controls lighting, door locks, etc.  I have 90 rules of programming in the ELK which serves as the master controller for both the Security and Automation support with the ISY serve as a bridge between the ELK and the Insteon network.  The system works great and the automation is designed and programmed to be automatic and not require human actions.  It is just there and turns devices on an off when they should to make living in the space as easy as possible.  Sunrise and sunset references are used to control morning and evening lighting and change the times across the year. 

 

[Del91574]

I can't say I've experienced an issue where I couldn't get enough volume out of the M1 after setting up the globals. I have somewhere north of 100 M1's out there and a few EZ8's tossed in for good measure (couldn't convince the HO to go with an M1 and expansion didn't make economic sense). The Elk 73's they ship with, while aesthetically appealing, don't really disperse the sound well. Even a traditional flush "grill" style alarm speaker has better projection.
 
I use the "good neighbor" feature of OUT2 and then use the volume ramping of OUT 1 extensively in the designs. I usually toss the single speaker and go with about 4 SP12's on most installs to get the impedance correct.
 
I've got a "shoemaker's kid" install. 6 keypads (2 retrofit hubs), 80 hardwired zones, 16 relay outputs, 2 wiegand readers, 2 electric mortise locks (Securitron Unlatch) GE wireless (fobs and some underfloor flood detectors-got tired of pulling wire again) with 2 zones of fire (smoke/heats and building) with a couple pull stations (garage and furnace room) all set for tandem ring and maintenance/freeze output.  2 212S' and some larger supplies. Interfaced with Zwave presently but looking into Ra at some point. Originally was going to go insteon and a hub (good dealer prices) but that was when I first put this M1 in about 8 years ago.