Incorporating Older ADT Sensors into New DIY Security Sys

[Curmudgeon10]

A couple of last questions before I purchase something...
 
Earlier, it was said that the presence (or absence) of EOLRs would influence the decision process on a replacement panel.  As my schematic indicates that I have them, how do I account for that in assessing a replacement system?
 
Any recommendations as to which manufacturer I should go with? (Probably going to source from smarthome.com).

 

[Del91574]

Realistically, EOLR's are not a huge deal, even if they're installed in the field...I fail to see why everyone harps on them so much.
 
Even if they're buried (usually a sign of a bad DIY) there's still ways to work around. Usually if they're in the field, they're either at a device or splice or JB. I think most pros have been burned on a takeover where they've been buried by inexperience.
 
Easiest way to determine if you have them would be to investigate your panel and use a DMM to verify value if they are present.
 
Personally, I'm partial to Honeywell for a straight ahead burg panel. Everything is backwards/forwards compatible (barring items that need latest/greatest panel firmware which is few and far between) and easy to program by hand with an alpha keypad. I've had major QC issues with DSC. I stay away from the GE product line...too much I know about the GE/UTC and them essentially getting out of the business. 

 

[RAL]

Realistically, EOLR's are not a huge deal, even if they're installed in the field...I fail to see why everyone harps on them so much.
 

Personally, I'm partial to Honeywell for a straight ahead burg panel. Everything is backwards/forwards compatible (barring items that need latest/greatest panel firmware which is few and far between) and easy to program by hand with an alpha keypad.

 
DEL - just to clarify what you are saying for the OP (and my own benefit)...
 
If he were to choose a Honeywell Vista as the replacement, doesn't that use 2K EOLRs vs the 4.7K he has installed now?  So that would require replacing the EOLRs (which you are saying isn't as bad as it seems.)
 
Or did I miss something?

 

[Curmudgeon10]

I will check a couple of circuits with the MM and see what the readings are...

 

[Del91574]

I'd be surprised if the EOLR's actually existed. Many of the Brinks installs I've witnessed only had them on the fire loop and that's it....unfortunately with mass market installs and panels, they tend to make the install as generic and easy for sometimes (unfortunately!) less than technical minded installers.

Even if the 4.7K resistors existed, every contemporary panel I know of would require them to be changed so it's really a moot point if they're in the field or not. I'm not getting into the discussion where people attempt to build "spiders" with other resistors to get panel zones to function.....that creates another host of issues with the panel and it sensing trouble conditions or generating false troubles and in an academic sense, it would work, it's a worst practice to entertain.
 
If the EOLR's can't be found and replaced, there's other options, but supervision of the circuit would be negated.

 

[Curmudgeon10]

I put some probes on the Zone 1 terminals ("Zone 1" and the adjacent "Common") and read 4.7K ohms.
 
Locating these resistors and replacing them might be problematic.  Everything is built in behind walls.  Just based on the name, I assume these EOLRs would be located at the end of the circuit, immediately behind the magnetic sensor head in the door/window open/closed sensors?  Could they be part of the board? 
 
How do the sensors work?  When you open the door, what complete circuit is broken?  Are there wires from the door portion of the magnetic sensor back to the panel?

 

[jpmargis]

I put some probes on the Zone 1 terminals ("Zone 1" and the adjacent "Common") and read 4.7K ohms.

 
I hope you really mean that you disconnected the wires for Zone 1 and measured across the wires?  If not, I'm going to revoke your "advanced DIY guy" status!!

 

[pete_c]

Just based on the name, I assume these EOLRs would be located at the end of the circuit, immediately behind the magnetic sensor head in the door/window open/closed sensors?  Could they be part of the board?

Yes
 
Yes; many times they are installed by the terminals on the alarm panel.  That said it does function but circumvents the purpose of the EOLR.
 
Have a read about EOLRs in the various links here on the forum regarding EOLRs.
 

How do the sensors work?  When you open the door, what complete circuit is broken? 
 
Are there wires from the door portion of the magnetic sensor back to the panel?

 
Logically whether it is a circuit that is opened or closed.  Doors here are in a closed loop until the door opens then they are open loops.  I think my 4 wire water sensors (2 wires are 12VDC) are open normally and close with sensing of water.  Sometimes the switches are purely mechanical instead of using a magnet. Similiar to a plunger pin type switch utilized for your automobile doors and the interior lighting.  Today too you can utilize tiny thin powerfull "earth magnets" such that the sensor can be placed a bit further away from the switch.  IE: like in a wood frame with trim above it or next to it such that you do not see the switch at all.  They look nicer this way but are difficult to get to /repair should the need arise.  Actually though even switches with magnets are mechanical in a sense.
 
Yes.  It is two wires unless its a sensor that needs voltage to operate.  The magnet in the door is what opens or closes the circuit.
 
Each loop can be one switch or wired serially for multiple switches.
 
It depends on the methodology utilized.  The old house that I upgraded did one loop for one room.  All of the windows switches were in series such that if one went open the loop / zone was opened.  One EOLR per loop or zone had been done.  The values "worked" with the HAI OPII panel. 
 
Ideally you want to be able to find the EOLR's easily.  Easily is adjacent to the switch.  There is a possibility that the EOLRs are buried somewhat say in a wall or just behind some trim which makes it difficult but not impossible to replace them. 
 
Here I soldered /heat shrinked the EOLR on the terminal end of the switch and don't really have multiple switches on loops rather mostly everything is on an individual zone.  There is a tiny bit of play in the switch wires such that if I remove it there is enough space to replace the EOLR or switch with no real problems.  I did use one of those little tiny soldering torches to solder the EOLR's and heat up the heat shrink tubing.  It is much easier than using a soldering gun (and better with the WAF).

 

[Curmudgeon10]

Thanks very much for this info.  Now I need to do some detective work.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

FYI, look at post number four HERE.

 

[Curmudgeon10]

Reading the various posts and references, since I could not find an EOLR on presumably the "first" NC sensor on my Zone 1 (there is another NC sensor in this zone which I have not yet examined), one would expect, if "normal" practice was followed, that this second sensor would have the EOLR wired in series to it.
 
To set at ease someone who worried about my probes on the panel, everything has been deactivated including the battery.  Getting the 4.7K ohms across the Zone

 

[Curmudgeon10]

Summing up, I couldn't find an EOLR on the first sensor I examined in Zone 1.  Since there is only a single pair running to the panel's zone one terminals, and there are two sensors in zone 1, it appears the two NC sensors in Zone 1 are wired in series.  If there is to be an EOLR, presumably it would be wired in series with the second sensor, the one I have yet to dig out of the door frame.  It's still too cold here. 
 
I measured 4.7K ohms across the zone 1 terminals (don't worry, everything is deactivated) with the wires detached, so it makes sense that there would be a 4.7K load in the sensor loop so that impedances match.
 
That means --- I gather --- that I would need to locate all the EOLRs and replace them to meet the specs of whatever panel I would purchase, correct?

 

[RAL]

Yes, proper practice is to place the EOLR at the last contact in the zone.  So that would explain why you aren't finding one on this first contact.  If your replacement panel requires a different EOLR value, you will either need to replace or remove the old EOLRs.   I would replace, rather than remove them, as long as you have things opened up anyway.

 

[Del91574]

You can't meter the resistance of a circuit on an alarm panel while it is still connected to the host panel!
 
You need to remove the cable pair from the circuit board.
 
While it's a better idea to replace the existing EOLR's with those for the host panel, there is a way to leave the old ones in place and via relays connect to the new panel. This is NOT recommended if you can get to the contact and locate the EOLR. Connecting in the manner I discussed will negate any supervision the EOLR provides.

 

[Curmudgeon10]

DE, if you read my post carefully, you'll see I had disconnected the cicuit wires from the panel.  The probes show the panel presents an impedance of 4.7K which is just another clue that the circuit has 4.7K impedance in it SOMEWHERE.
 
I have seven zones, so I may need to locate seven EOLRs.  If I can't do this relatively quickly and easily, then I am just going to scrap the old system and go wireless.
Weather is improving and will be in the sixties tomorrow -- good enough for open doors and windows as I hunt.