Insteon signals tripping breakers

[raymondh]

I have a new house and have installed 25 insteon switchlincs. Everything works great locally and, for the most part remotely except when I run a ISY program that turns a bunch of lights on. About every third time I run the program it trips either one or two breakers. I'm not sure the type of breaker but they aren't the same as the others in the box and they only trip half way if that makes sense. There was one light that I could turn on and off at the switch as many time as I could stand and it would be fine but as soon as I did the same with a remotelinc, it would trip the breaker after a few times.

Any ideas?

 

[fcwilt]

Every breaker design I've encountered only trips half way. Then you have to throw it completely off then back on.
 
I can't imagine why using Insteon would have this effect unless the remotelinc was incorrectly configured and was actually turning several units on at once.
 
Post a picture of the breaker - it may be an arc-fault type - if it is then a bit of loose wiring that is creating an arc might trip it.

 

[neillt]

Sounds like an Arc Fault breaker.  Some of the older first generation Arc Faults had issues with X-10, sensing it as an arc.
 
My house (built in 2012) has arc faults on almost everything, but I hadn't had any issues with UPB at all.

 

[tmbrown97]

If it's an arc fault, it probably has a test button like a GFCI would.
 
The only other thing I could think of is inrush but that'd take a lot to cause an issue and most breakers can handle that - so I'm with the others suspecting it's an arc-fault that's gone bad or there's a loose wire somewhere.  I'd just replace the breaker and check connections all at once, although those things aren't cheap.

 

[signal15]

I replaced all of my Arc-fault breakers at my last house with regular ones.  Just about anything would trip them, electric motors were the worst culprit (in fridges, vacuum, etc).  

 

[fcwilt]

I replaced all of my Arc-fault breakers at my last house with regular ones.  Just about anything would trip them, electric motors were the worst culprit (in fridges, vacuum, etc).  

 
I hope you saved them so you can replace them if you ever sell the house.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Not to stray to off topic, but "I" thought that Arc Fault Breakers were only required in bedrooms.  IE, wondering why you would have them on motor/fridge circuits.

 

[neillt]

At least in California they are now required on pretty much any receptacle based circuit... that may be a generalization but over half of my breakers are Arc Fault, the only ones that aren't seem to be lighting, appliances, and fire control/alarm.

 

[RAL]

Not to stray to off topic, but "I" thought that Arc Fault Breakers were only required in bedrooms.  IE, wondering why you would have them on motor/fridge circuits.

 
The 2008 NEC expanded the requirement for AFCIs to pretty much all rooms, including living rooms, family rooms, dining rooms, dens, etc.  Many states did not immediately incorporate this into their own electrical codes.  There are still some that haven't made the change.

 

[fcwilt]

Not to stray to off topic, but "I" thought that Arc Fault Breakers were only required in bedrooms.  IE, wondering why you would have them on motor/fridge circuits.

 
Because the makers push through new regs to require them most everywhere - it's all about money - not safety - arc-fault breakers are high profit items.

 

[gatchel]

Because the makers push through new regs to require them most everywhere - it's all about money - not safety - arc-fault breakers are high profit items.

 And a waste of money too...
 
It all depends on what code cycle your local AHJ is on. I have done work that was inspected, didn't have ARC faults installed, and the inspector said, "not a big deal they are more of a hassle any way..."
 
I laughed!

 

[tmbrown97]

Yikes - I have AFC's on the bedrooms - it wouldn't be possible to add more without a total load center replacement, since some morons decided that all houses in this community should be wired with undersized panels; my 4000sq ft house has an identical panel as my 2000sq ft neighbor - just more outlets per circuit... and they're already ALL doubles with no room for expansion.

 

[fcwilt]

I would think that if they are all doubles that would exceed the rating of the load center. Seems to me I remember my electrician talking about how many circuits he could put in a load center and that put a limit on the number of double breakers.
 
Maybe not.

 

[tmbrown97]

The total amperage of the breakers definitely more than doubles the 200A rating of the panel.  I think there are considerations made for the fact that no single circuit overconsumes and the panel itself is current limited.
 
That said, it's true - my house and my neighbor's house have identical panels despite mine being twice the size - 6 BR vs. 3; 4 baths vs. 2; etc - and it's all double-breakers except the required AFC/GFC's.  I've had to do a lot of work to do my minimal expansion without outgrowing the panel.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Thanks for the info RAL and Frederick...learned something today!