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Integrating TS-16 into split system A/C systems

fleetz

Active Member
I will probably have three seperate split air conditioning system in a new house I am building next year. Each system will have either two or three heads. These units typical have IR remotes that mount on the wall but are not wired.

Do these type of split systems A/C support wiring in a communicating thermostat? Is it the norm for all of them to allow communicating thermostats? I am hoping to use the TR-16-485 with my M1G.

Anybody had experience integrating wired thermstats into these type of split system A/C systems?

Thanks,

Fleetz
 

pete

Active Member
do you mean "ductless split" ? ? ?

. . . these units were originall made w/ wired t-stats, but most of the time they are used in retro-fit applications, where the wireless thermostat is preferred (so the new t-stat can be placed without concern with wiring) . . .

. . . you would need the actual manufacturer of the units you plan to use to determine wether or not they will support wired thermostats . . .

. . . that being said, I can't imagine that a manufacturer would not include this feature . . .

. . . the A/C unit does not know (or care) if the particular t-stats are the 'communicating' type (if standard t-stats will work, so will the 'communicating' type)

Pete C
 

fleetz

Active Member
Hi Pete,

Yes I think we are talking about the same type of A/C,.Here is a link to the type I am looking at installing. http://panasonic.com.au/products/details.cfm?objectID=2403

Unfortunately for whatever reason I can not open their operating instructions. I have updated the PDF reader but keeps seeing a corrupt PDF file. All of their PDF are the same so I don't know if there is some there that helps. I have contacted their customer support and it is just too hard! The people you speak to are video and cameras and you get we don't have a air conditioning specialist.....now that's scary! Panasonic were the only manufacturer that posted operating manuals so I was hoping the answer my be there but I can't read it ahhhhhh!

Anyway this type of A/C in very commonly used here in Australia and have a IR remote control type thermostat. I am not sure that they actually communicate back to the A/C after you adjust the temp settings. The A/C unit probalbly has a thermostat that it uses to adjust to the new temp setting. By that I mean if the remote thermostat sends down by 3 degrees the local thermostat at the A/C unit would be used its thermostat to detect when a three degree temp change has been achieved.

So it is not or at least I believe it is not "communicating" to the A/C unit. Just didn't know if split system type A/C systems typically made provision for wired thermostats, I agree the A/C unit doesn't know or care if it is a communicating thermostat. It is more do they enable wired theremstats to connected.

I hope your correct in your thinking about " I can't imagine that a manufacturer would not include this feature . . . " I will dig deeper and call into a airconditioning specialist today and see what I can gleem.

It could well be that one manufacturer supports wired and another doesn't.

I will report back and share my findings.

Thanks,

Fleetz
 

electron

Administrator
Staff member
I was going to host the PDF for you, since the brochure PDF worked fine, but the manual itself is corrupt, I tried to open it with Foxit PDF reader, and no luck, sorry.
 

JohnBullard

Active Member
e,

I also tried with Adobe, same result. Hmmm, maybe because it's written in Aussie ? ;)

Sorry fleetz, couldn't resist. (Wonder if Santa will think that was bad?)
 

elcano

Active Member
I was wondering the same. I has a Carrier split unit. It has an IR remote control that I would not call thermostat, since it just sends a set-point to the A/C internal thermostat (in addition to on/off and other functions).

I'll probably do some reverse engineering to it to see if I can find any 4 wire cable that I can intercept - in order to install a M1 controlled thermostat.

Do anybody knows what signals should I find in those wires? What voltage range do the power pair use? What voltage should I find in the other two cables? What are they for, cooling and heating set points, respectively?

Thanks.
 

pete

Active Member
fleetz -

I took a look at the U.S. site for those Panasonic units, and, yes, they are what we in the business call a 'ductless split' . . .

<sidebar> in contrast to traditional residential A/C being a 'ducted split system' (condenser and evaporator are seperate units) and commercial type rooftop 'packaged' units (condenser and evap are in same housing). </sidebar>

. . . the install instructions there were not conclusive, but did have a drawing of a terminal block that I would bet is 'typical' in its wiring (meaning a normal t-stat could be used) . . .

. . . a call to a local HVAC contractor (that deals with these units on a regular basis) would answer a lot of questions . . .



elcano - have a look at this



Pete C



(all comments made with a U.S. point of view)
 

fleetz

Active Member
Hi Pete,

Thanks for taking the effort to do what you did and for your feedback.

I have cantact Panasonic customer support here and explained what I am wanting to do and the lass had to ask the A/C expert and was to get back in touch. Still waiting for the call. I suspect that Christmas break up has now taken a higher priority.

Will feedback here when I have something to report.

The compliments of the season.

Regards,

Fleetz
 

fleetz

Active Member
Just following up on the post as I promised.

Firstly I can not seem to find any solution to my multi split system (ductless split) air conditioning requirement. I have contacted numerous air conditioning manufacturers Panasonic, Fujitsu, Daikin etc etc and none support wired thermostats.

The closest I have found is Daikin who do an interface board that enable you to switch the head units on and off via a contact closure but no temperature feedback so I don't feel that is a solution.

I find it hard to believe that these split systems don't support a wire thermostat. I would have thought that RCS and Aprilare would list up on their websites which systems are compatible with their thermostats.

All in all a very frustrating experience, most of the manufactures I had contacted had never heard of anyone wanting to connected a wired thermostat to a split system indoor unit. Is home automation that new that the air conditioning industry is still coming to grips with what the needs and wants of the HA industry are?

Unfortunately the only air conditioning system that make sense in my particular situation is the multi split systems and there don't appear to be a manufacturer that can provide a solution. All I want to do is control and monitor the nine rooms from my ELK M1G.

Begs the question where do the likes of RCS and Aprilare communicating thermostats get used? I have 9 seperate area that would use these communicationg thermostats back to my ELK M1G but I can't find any air conditiong system to connect them too!

Cheers,

Fleetz
 

Mike

Senior Member
I had some very cursory discussions on putting in a system like that in my house. I did not get very far at all, so I don't have much to offer. If we are indeed talking about the same thing (which I believe we are) units are placed in each room.

The one that came up in conversations with someone 'in the know' was Mitsubishi made units. He had apparently installed a bunch of them, in both residential and commercial situations.

If I can get an answer on thermostats (if you can hook one up per room, then they just need to be Elk-compatible ones such as RCS, Aprilaire of HAI). In the meantime, you may want to look at Mitsubishi.
 

fleetz

Active Member
Thanks Mike,

I did not contact Mitsubishi initially just contacted them here in Australia and the lights are on but nobody is home! Everyone that might be in the know is on holidays so I have a call in for a return of call next week.

I sractched around their website site and did find something interesting. Have a look at http://www.mitsubishielectric.com.au/PRODU...tial/index.html download the product brochure at the bottom and have a look at pages 5 and 9 on the PDF. They show what appears to be a wired controller, the chances that the connectivity would be compatible with the RCS or Aprilare are probably slim however I will not die wondering. When their engineering people come back and I can get some answers I will post where we got to.

Cheers,

Fleetz
 

fleetz

Active Member
Just a follow up report on what I been able to find out on the thermostat control of split system A/C systems. (Ductless)

I have probably contact 9 or 10 manufacturers and I can not find a brand that enables a thermostat to be directly wired on a room by room basis. There are brands that have network control of complete systems however they are closed systems and appears not to be too friendly to linking to external HA systems and they are quite expensive.

The best I look like being able to do is both with the Daikin and Mitsubishi brands offer a basic interface board that enables a dry contact to swith the indoor unit on or off. Have not seen the interfaces however both are quoting around $15-20 AUD.

So I will probably go down the path of putiing a thermostat in each of the 9 areas in th enew house and bring them back to the ELK M1G and control the on/off operation via a relay board. The compromise is that each of the indoor units will be set for a fixed temperature and I won't have remote temperature control.

Anyone have any suggestions as to a nice temperature sensor that I can feed into the ELK? The M1ZTS is OK however I don't like the fact that there is a warm up period and also given the tempature sensor will be installed at around 1200mm to 1500mm (4'-5') on the wall in each of the rooms I would also look for something is nice on the eye. Welcome any suggestions.

Spank if you tune into this I believe you mention that ELK were doing another version in 2006.....any progress?

Cheers,

Fleetz
 
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