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Questions for new HAI Lumina Pro System

Choots

Member
I've been running this system for a while now, but continue to be a bit baffled by lack of accuracy of the thermostats.   The system seems to work, the dampers close and open and is frequently running to heat the basement as it is coldest there.  The thermostat there seems to work fine, measuring a temperature to within a degree of the set point.  However, the main floor is way off.  The set point is frequently between 62 and 65, and the temperature measures as 76, when other thermometer/devices I have in the house say it's probably closer to 68-70.  The top floor is also off - the heat rises of course and it can be hotter upstairs than anywhere, so it is frequently showing 72+ when the setpoint is only 64.  WHen I go down to look at the controller, the two upstairs zones are frequently closed and the system is heating the basement.
 
Our house is very open, and somewhat large, plus we have some drafty windows at the back on the main level, and the thermostats are in the center of the house.   I do notice a difference in comfort level, but I'm pretty sure we are also spending more that last year because the temps are higher.  I'm not expecting perfection, but I thought the zone system would control temps a little more closely?
 
Do I need to calibrate these somehow?  Does anyone have any thoughts about how I might adjust this for more control?
 
Thanks
 

neillt

Active Member
The Omnistats do have a calibration offset inside the setup menus somewhere.  You could always try adjusting that slowly to reach what you think is a more accurate reading of the room.
 
Keep in mind as well that the Omnistats have a second temperature sensor that measures the wall temps, so that it will know if killing the heat will rapidly cool the room off due to cold walls and furniture.  I think that only plays into cycle times, and whether it keeps running longer than normal.
 

Choots

Member
Thanks I'll look into it.  
 
I also have some other questions related to my basement renovation and integration of my HAI system...  I'll post them soon.
 

Choots

Member
So while I look into the HVAC issue, I need to get back to my original basement renovation. I have some additional questions for my HAI system.   I've got a larger window and sliding glass door that I'm going to wire up in preparation for a future shade install once the basement is done.  Somewhere in another thread about wiring for shade control, someone said to wire a 110V receptacle, a 18x2 for power and a 23x3 (cat5e) for control near the top of the window. 
 
My walls are open and I have receptacles near the floor in the right spots to run a wire to a box next to the window and door near the top.  I also have run Cat5e and may run some 18Ga. there as well.  My question is how would this be trimmed out?  Would the 110V box have a receptacle, or would it us a whip of BX cable wired directly to the shade?  Or will it just depend on what shade motor/controller you buy?  Should I drill a small hole large enough for the cat5e through the framing and the window casing/jamb at the top so the wire will be hidden?  Or should I just plan to have it come out of a cover plate on the drywall right near the top left side of the window, and assume I can cover it with the window treatments (valence, cornice, whatever...)
 
I haven't shopped for shades or really done much research except to know that it's ridiculously expensive for what it is, and that there appear to be few standard approaches to remote control.  If anyone has some references or suggestions for me I would appreciate it.  Links to other content here is welcome also - I did do a few searches, but got quickly lost.
 
Thanks!
 

Choots

Member
Ok no one has responded, maybe I'll clarify my questions:
 
1) How should wiring terminate near the top of the window for shade control?
  - I have 110V box and I also have Low voltage control and supply to terminate near the top of the window.  How is this done for connections to shade motors?  Can't combine house voltage and low voltage in a box so will I have to have two boxes with cover plates on the walls (hopefully covered by windows treatments?  Or should I have one box for the 110V (required) and then feed the LV through to the inside of the window?
 
2) How will wiring connect to shade motors?
  - Should I drill hole through framing into the window opening to attach LV wiring to shade motors and leave it coiled until I need it?  Do I custom make some kind of recess in the window casing to hide the wiring for now?  Or just another LV ring through the drwall across to the shade motor? (which seems kind of ugly).
  - Assuming it's needed for a given shade motor, will there be an outlet with regular plug in to connect to 110V or will this typically be fed by a Armored BX cable directly to the shade motor housing?
 
Thanks for any help you can provide - I'm trying to wrap up my wiring and this is among my last steps before spray foam.
 

neillt

Active Member
Each shade system is a little different.  I would find the shades you want, then rough-fit to match that.
 

Choots

Member
Ok, I'm a little baffled.  Based on what I wrote in this thread, it seems like our AC was working last year - but I actually can't remember if it ever fired because we basically had a crappy summer with temps that didn't heat up the house much.  I really can't remember if it ran, which makes me wonder if I connected it properly.  I thought I tested it, but can't remember.  
 
Anyway, the zone controller is working fine triggering the right dampers to open as temps go up, and I've put all thermostats (Omnistat2) on Cool and Fan on Auto.  The fan comes on as temps go up, and seems to blow air to the right zones, but when I check the condenser out back, the condenser fan is not running and no cool air comes in.  I've not seen it come on, which again makes me doubt my wiring for AC.  Heat works great though...
 
Here's a couple diagrams of what I setup versus previous wiring.  Can anyone suggest if I've got the AC wired improperly?  It seems to be the same as was previously setup with my prior Thermostat (before zone control), but maybe I'm missing something... 
 
Thanks.
 
18307618884_5861cd784c_m.jpg
 

ano

Senior Member
Calibrating Omnistats is easy, but they are pretty bad out of the box.  Use the same calibrated thermostat for all the Omnistats so they are consistent if you have a zone controller. Wait at least an hour for thermostat and thermometer to stablize.
 
My blide thread is here:
http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/28079-what-i-learned-automating-blinds/
 
There are wireless or wired blinds, and battery and 120v blinds so its impossible to make blanket recommendations. I like wireless so you can place remotes nearby, in addition to having the system control it.  Also, Somfy has a sunlight controller that requires wireless to work. 
 
Motorized blinds are about double the cost of manual ones. For drapery, motors add about 25% more to the cost (because drapes are so expensive themselves).
 

Choots

Member
Thanks ano.  I'll look into calibration on the Omnistats.   Any comments about the AC problem?  I need to do some testing I guess. 
 

Choots

Member
As an update, it looks like the Honeywell zone controller is properly wired.   I did a bunch of diagnostics on the AC Outside unit.   I was getting 24V at the wiring from the house, but that goes through a "Comfort Alert" module on the outside unit, and this had a trip indicator, with about 6 different root causes.  Run Start Capacitor measures out fine, and when I depress the contactor manually, the fan and compressor come on instantly and seem to run fine.  
 
However, there is something causing the electronics to shut down the power to the unit, so I'm having someone come look at it since I've run the course of my knowledge.  Also, it's in the mid to high 80's here this week, so we need the AC on!
 
Thanks
 

Choots

Member
The AC problem turned out to be a tripped High Pressure switch, and this disabled 24V to the outside unit.  One press and it was back up and running.  The root cause had likely been the need for a Furnace Filter replacement.  I've completed that as well and the AC system seems  to be running fine.
 
In the aftermath, I realized the RC-2000 Thermostat in the basement was not working.  When I pulled it apart, I smelled the distinctive odor of burnt electronics, and noticed the large 100 uF cap on the back was scarred and burnt through.  It must have happened when I was diagnosing the AC problems - I think one time I didn't disconnect the 24V power prior to making connection changes.   I didn't want to have to buy a new one given these were out of warranty, so I found a replacement cap yesterday, and installed it.  I put it back together to find the radial cap is a little thicker diameter, so I'll have to cut out a recess on the back of the wall mount. Should be fine. So the obvious learning here is to disconnect 24V before changing wiring...   :blush:

I then hooked it back up but it didn't work immediately.  I went back to the Zone Controller to check the settings, and by the time I had come back out, it was working - I tested all functions and it seems normal.
 
So all is well and the most important thing - the house is very comfortable throughout, and my wife is happy that the upstairs is no longer 80F!   Success!
 
My next steps are to get the Lumina Pro hooked up and working and connected with Lighting and HVAC.
 

Choots

Member
Well, after a long delay, I'm back.  I've had a lot of family related things to take care of over the last two years, including the unexpected and all too early passing of my mother, and then spending time with my father while we all recovered.  I've laso been travelling a lot for work in between.  In and among all that I found some time to work on the basement and home theater,  and now I'm finally at a stage where I can work on the automation system, and get my lighting working.  
 
I've finished drywall, trim carpentry and paint, and installed most of my lighting fixtures and switches. Here's some pictures of the theater as it's developed:
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
 
So I'm finally hooking up and installing my Lumina Pro - I can't believe how long this has taken me.  I'm rather embarrassed to be coming asking for help, when the delays have been my issues, but I'm not sure what else to say.  As a result I'm finding I have some questions that might be rather basic.  I've spent some time reading on the forum about other threads that talk about setting it up, but I still have the following questions:
 
1) Power - I didn't realize when I purchased this unit that it didn't come with the 24V 40Ah transformer, nor the sealed battery.  So I'll have to find those - I see that Amazon has a transformer from Elk that looks like it is the right thing...  https://www.amazon.com/Elk-TRG2440-24VAC-Transformer-Fuse/dp/B0007N5LJK/ref=pd_sim_23_8?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0007N5LJK&pd_rd_r=5963F7476Z83N90GBG41&pd_rd_w=OKZ8y&pd_rd_wg=rpEyS&psc=1&refRID=5963F7476Z83N90GBG41
 
And here is a link for a battery.  https://www.amazon.com/ExpertPower-EXP1250-Alarm-Battery-Terminals/dp/B0010Z4MDK/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_23_bs_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=P3V1G54A2K7X2AHW0V4V
 
Does anyone have any feedback or reasons why I should get something else?
 
2a.)  Phase coupler.  I have the Leviton phase coupler that was included in the kit, and I've seen the install instructions.  I have a 200 A main service, and a subpanel that feeds my basement, and my Home theater and all my current switches and modules will be in that lower level fed off the subpanel.  Therefore I planned to put the phase coupler in the basement subpanel, it still has some open space - my main panel is full.    Am I ok to start with the subpanel, or should I plan to get another phase coupler for the main panel?
 
2b.)  If I need one for the main panel, I guess my assumption is that I can install this on an existing pair of breakers to bridge the two sides of the panel, since it will not use much if any current at all. (and as I mentioned, my main panel is full)  Am I right?
 
3.)  Keypad.   Do I need to install the Lumina Keypad?  I may be able to put it upstairs near the entrance, but it may not make sense yet, since I doubt I'll have any switches or modules there until later - and who knows how long that will take at my pace... ;)
 
4.) Wiring cabinet.  I've installed the Lumina panel in a Leviton Structured wiring enclosure, but I find that the little black pins that hold the backer panel in place don't seem very secure - at least they wobble around a bit and it feels like it's not the right way to attach things... but there are no screw locations that work for this, and I read as much as I could find and this was the product that was recommended...  Am i doing it wrong?
 
5.) HLC vs UPB.   I have the PC Access for Dealer software and was planning on using the HLC approach.
I have a few more modules to install including the Simply automated relay modules I plan to use for some outdoor outlets, and my home theater rope lights.  Here are the lighting zones and other circuits I plan on controlling:
 
1. HVAC
    - Three RC-2000 thermostats for my zone control system (three levels)
 
2. Pool 
    - Pump - Remote power module (model 71A00-1)  - Future use (not purchased yet)
 
3. Home Theater
    - Main Recessed lights
    - Soffit lights 1
    - Soffit lights 2
    - Rope Lights  (3 separate segments - 1 circuit)
    - Niche lights (3 lights over built in cabinets in wall)
    - Shelf lights (6 units in 2 shelves on sides of built in cabinet wall)
 
4. Bar 
    - Main recessed lights
    - Pendant lights (future)
    - Under cabinet lights
    - Outside lights on Deck
 
5. Stair Landing and Hallway
    - Main lighting
    - Niche lights
    - Hallway lights
 
The problem that I foresee is that I have two entrances to the home theater, and was going to put scene controllers at the doors for each - see the pics above.  However, I was thinking these would behave as dual scene controllers, with the same programming, mainly for the home theater, as opposed to having one for the home theater and one for the bar.  I intended the scene controllers to control the home theater, and only use the switches at the door for the bar.  Now I'm thinking that I'll have trouble creating this scheme.  It's a problem because the main entrance actually goes to the home theater through the bar, and the scene controller would be at the door to the bar.  So I may have to sort of combine the bar and home theater circuits...
 
Can anyone verify what I'm saying or give me a better way to think about it?  Can I manage one zones off two scene controllers?  Or should I have one separate one for the bar as well?  This feels like it will not be intuitive, and since it's all one big space, it sucks to have to go over to the other side to trigger scenes in the home theater...
 

ano

Senior Member
Personally I would use a Leviton Repeater rather than a coupler. You will save yourself trouble in the long-run.  It needs its own set of breakers.
 
When placing the room controllers, its not so much about if you can do it, but more making it the easiest to live with. Two room controllers can mirror each other, and links from one can be on another.  If you have room, you could put two room controllers adjacent to each other for two adjacent rooms, then use another at the other side of the room.
 
The room controllers set the "scenes" for each room, so start thinking about these. If possible, keep the four scenes similar for each room. I always have a "normal" setting for A, a bright setting for B, a dim setting for C, and "Party" for D. We almost never touch the actual switches anymore, just the room controllers and scenes.
 
Also each "room" doesn't need to be a actual room but it should be areas. You can combine multiple areas, but remember, you only have 4 scenes plus on and off. 
 
From experience make it simple and logical and consistent. There are many tricks you can do, but you are better-off with logical and consistent.
 

pete_c

Guru
Here settled on using SA multiple toggle and dual load switches for many room / scene controllers and to shrink down the footprint of switches.  (original base of UPB switches were HAI, PCS and SA)
 
It is a bit different than the HLC configuration.
 
I am using the OmniPro 2 panel with automation software such that transport is:
 
HAI ==> UPB switches
Software ==> direct connected UPB serial PIM
Software ==> HAI plugin ==> UPB switches
 

cobra

Active Member
That transformer and battery should be fine.  I'll have to check my Lumina (non-Pro), but I think it has a wire harness for two of those batteries, so if you want longer backup time you can purchase two.  (Although backing up the Lumina when power is off may not have much benefit if you aren't doing battery backup of other devices in your house.)
 
Phase coupler: I didn't install one in our 200A panel.  I figured I would run with the main UPB controller first and see how reliability was. It's been solid without it.  That may depend on which UPB PIM you get though, I've heard some have stronger signal than others.
 
Keypad: My keypad sits in the wiring closet connected to the panel.  Sometimes it is handy for programming when you have a question about what the network programming software is doing or are confused about a setting.  I only briefly entertained wiring another one elsewhere in the house.  We've pretty much never needed it.  We have a separate security system, that one has panels in the house.
 
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