Is it possible to use 12V 4-wire smokes w/o a panel?

[Jax]

Hello! You have a great forum here. I've lurked and learned a lot already.

I am remodeling my home - a complete retrofit.

My wife and I would like to move back in before everything is complete but the inspector wants us to have functioning smokes before he will permit us to do so.

I have wired for 12V 4-wire smokes, all home run to the place where the panel *will* be. Right now it's just a mass of wiring service loops...

I'm planning to get (3) System Sensor 4WTA-B, (1) RRS-MOD and (1) EOLR-1.

What I would like to do (and he will permit us to do), if it will work, is to hook up the detectors to a mini 12V transformer plugged into a UPS. This gets me the line power and the battery backup he wants. I have not been able to figure out how to get the simultaneous alarm he wants, however.

So, my questions are:

Is it possible to wire the smokes up so they will sound together, without a functioning alarm system like the M1G? With only 12V (+) and (-)?

If so, what do I have to do with the other two wires to make it work?

If not, can anyone help me come up with a way to get smokes working, any smokes, without using a conventional 3-wire line power setup?

Thanks!

Jax

 

[gatchel]

There will be no supervision which kind of defeats the prupose of having a life safety system.

You'd be better installing 3 battery powered smokes until the panel is in, if the AHJ will allow it.


My $0.02.

It is possible with the RRS-MOD and some other components. I wouldn't do it.

 

[paulw11]

Hi,

If you wanted to do it you could basically follow figure 4 on page 3 of this document

Using the RRS-Mod you would connect as follows:

power + to yellow & red on the RRS-Mod & to 1 (+) & 5 (common) on the smokes
Power - to orange & black on the RRS-Mod & to 2 (-) on the smokes
Purple from the RRS-Mod to 4 (N.O.) on the smokes.

With this set up when a smoke goes into alarm, it will close it's relay which puts +12V onto the purple wire. This causes the RRS-Mod to reverse the supply voltage which triggers all of the sounders.

You would probably need to unplug your power supply to stop the alarms from sounding

Paul

 

[Jax]

gatchel,

There would not be any supervision on battery smokes either. If it's possible for this to work, I'll gain line power and simultaneous alarm - both of which the AHJ wants as a condition for early move-in. My only other alternative is to install conventional line powered smokes.

Paul,

Thanks for the information. I took a look at the instructions but I'm still confused. Figure 4 appears to have the smokes wired in series and my understanding of your post is that they would be wired in parallel.

As an aside, if they're wired in parallel do I still need the EOLR-1 at this stage?

I have no problem with unplugging the power supply to silence the alarms... *after* we bug out and make sure all is well.

Thanks again for the help.

Jax

 

[paulw11]

Paul,

Thanks for the information. I took a look at the instructions but I'm still confused. Figure 4 appears to have the smokes wired in series and my understanding of your post is that they would be wired in parallel.

As an aside, if they're wired in parallel do I still need the EOLR-1 at this stage?

Thanks again for the help.

Jax

Hi,

If you look closely you will see that terminals 4 & 5 are actually wired in parallel - 4 connects to 4 on the next detector and the same with 5. The power is being looped through terminals 1 & 2 on each detector, but they are still effectively in parallel.

At this stage you wouldn't use the EOLR-1 because there is no panel to look for the EOL termination resistance.

Paul

 

[gatchel]

Gotcha...I didn't realize the AHJ was willing to work with a "rigged" temporary setup. My thoughts were that the battery smokes would give you the trie and true protection that we have all depended on for years. When the battery get low they beep.

The document listed above will work well for your application. Good Luck.

 

[Jax]

Paul & gatchel,

Thank you both for your replies and information. I've ordered the smokes and will get them hooked up (and tested) next week.

 

[Jax]

After thinking about it for a while (and looking at my wire mess...) I have a couple more questions.

On your instructions, you state "Power - to orange & black on the RRS-Mod & to 2 (-) on the smokes"
Should that be 3 (-) rather than 2 (-)?

Here's the diagram I drew up of what I understand you propose, is this accurate?:

DC Power         RRS-MOD           Firewire            Smokes
--------             -------                --------              ------
12V (+) Red --- Red (+)
                     \- Yellow (+)
                        
12V (-) Blk ---    Black (-)
                  \-    Orange (-)
                        
                        White (-)    ---   Black      ---       Term 3 (-)
                        
                        Purple (+)  ---   Green     ---       Term 4 (N.O.)

                        Brown (+) ---   Red        ---        Term 1 (+)
                                          \-   Yellow    ---        Term 5 (Common)

In case my diagram didn't show it... I have no idea what the appropriate wire color codes should be in this case. So, I grabbed the Blk wire for (-), the Red & Yellow wires for (+) and used the leftover Grn wire for (N.O.). Is there a convention for which wire color is used, for what terminal, in a situation like this?

Thanks again!

Jax

 

[paulw11]

After thinking about it for a while (and looking at my wire mess...) I have a couple more questions.

On your instructions, you state "Power - to orange & black on the RRS-Mod & to 2 (-) on the smokes"
Should that be 3 (-) rather than 2 (-)?

Sorry, my mistake - It should be 3, not 2.

Paul