Just installed my in-ceilings (AudioSource 6.5"s)

[shenandoah75]

Well i just installed a pair of the $40 audiosource 6.5"s from Amazon in my dining room tonight ( i wasn't impressed with what i listened to at Best Buy (JBL, etc) to lay out 4-6 times that much without giving these a shot). I packed each cavity between the joists with (4) squares of R-13 insulation...

My wife and i were both pretty impressed - especially how the whole house audio / background listening we'll be doing. I played a bunch of stuff from Eric Clapton to U2, to Heart, Boston, Celine, Brian Doerkson, etc. They lack low end, but i'm trying to figure out where to put a sub to address that. An in-wall off the equipment closet would be sweet, but pricey.

I still don't get the catch on these, but the reviews on Amazon conviced me that it was worth $40 - i'm paying a ton for the volume controls compared to the main reproducers - but hey! I'm ordering more and some of the dual voice coil variety from amazon tonight.

-brad

 

[Timoh]

I came to the same conclusion... Not AudioSources, but Phoenix Gold 6.5" is what I chose. Lower cost than all "high end" stuff, but not at the absolute bottom either. I didn't have a chance to directly compare them to the AudioSources.

My only issue is the rooms above the speakers gets lots of sound "bleed through". Even though the ceiling is packed with lots of insulation.

Tim

 

[shenandoah75]

Interesting on all accounts!!!!

Audiosource's website (http://www.audiosource.net/) actually has a phoenix gold icon on the top and says "accoustics by" - so i think they're probably close to the same thing...

And I have the same problem with bleedthrough. I packed that ceiling, but could hear the bass/low-mids in my son's bedroom above. He actually came down this morning and told me it helped put him to sleep though



Curious did you pursue a sub to suplement? if so, where'd you place? I'm realy thinking i want to do that and buy a pair of these
http://www.audioc.com/accessories1/misc/hipass.htm

I was a little concerned that some of the deep bass was stressing those woofers. Didn't sound quite like clipping or anything, just didn't seem right.

-brad

 

[politics123]

I read a lot about sound-proofing before doing my house... packing insulation isn't sufficient on its own. They make special mats that sometimes help, but the real culprit is the single-layer wood subfloor or the single layer of drywall. Most "sound-proofing" requires putting an intervening wall/floor between the sound source and the other room, using offsetting studs, and often a "double layer" of drywall to increase the wall's mass.

In short, nothing that's cheap! So, I too packed insulation and just live with the bleed-through.

Sometimes, rarely, more expensive speakers are actually better built. This may increase their longevity, but I guess its possible that people with especially good hearing can tell them apart. I didn't care... my system is for background music when we have friends or family over, and I also used less-expensive speakers. (Leviton spec-grade -- not the overpriced JBLs) I get reasonable bass out of mine (as measured by playing Enya Book of Days), but that's probably because I built wooden speaker boxes around them.

 

[TLCNORM]

Politics,
Could you post a pic of your wooden boxes? I have speakers in my kitchen that sound kinda hollow. I did nothing to the back of them. The kitchen has all hard surfaces (wood and granite) and a cathedral ceiling. Interested to see what you did.

 

[politics123]

Politics,
Could you post a pic of your wooden boxes? I have speakers in my kitchen that sound kinda hollow. I did nothing to the back of them. The kitchen has all hard surfaces (wood and granite) and a cathedral ceiling. Interested to see what you did.

Hmm... took a quick pass through the construction pics and found a "pre" picture, but not a post picture. Maybe I can find one later, but I think the following will give you an idea:

1) I attached the pre-picture and circled the speaker rough-in with bold red.
2) The speaker rough-in is a plastic slot attached to the floor joists (which are engineered I beams)
3) Those engineered I-beams are 12" high. and 18" wide.
4) So imagine taking a piece of .25" plywood, cutting out two squares 12" x 18" and then attaching it to the I-beams on either side of the speaker rough-in, forming a ~1' box. It does not have to be an "air-tight" fit... just close enough.

The idea was to give the sound a solid surface to reflect off of in the ceiling joist and prevent it from moving down the entire open joist cavity. That increases the crispness of the sound (and helps very mildly with the bass) --- instead of the sound coming from the entire ceiling joist cavity, the sound is originates from only one area.

I'd guess that the "hollow" sound you report is some "echo" effect as the sound moves down the joist cavity. In effect, the entire joist is a huge speaker... but the majority of the sound originates from the actual speaker, leaving only shadows to come from the rest of the joist cavity-- hence the hollow sound.

Shouldn't be too hard to retrofit blocking. Use something hard, like plastic or (preferably) wood. You can use a number of small pieces to basically cover up the stud cavity on either side of the speaker.

 

[TLCNORM]

Thanks. Actually my speakers in the kitchen are mounted on a wall with the back being totally open air space. I think I've read somewhere about buliding boxes out of ridgid insulation and then filling that with reg insulation and covering the rear of the speaker. Thjink that would work?

 

[AnthonyZ]

You know, I am always amazed that people are willing to compromise on sound. I don't want to sound like a snob (I accept that I probably do) and I do think that due to price there are definitely times to accept a little "kludge". I just can't imagine how the reproduction of music could ever fall into that category. Maybe it's just me but, Coltrane over piss poor speakers sounds just like Coltrane over piss poor speakers. Obviously the same could be said of Led Zeppelin, Underoath, Bach or anyone else you may listen to. Call me crazy.........

As for back boxes, any reputable manufacturer will be happy to provide you with volume measurements that will work most appropriately with how the speaker is voiced. Some are actually designed to work with infinite baffles and thus, back boxes can actually hurt playback. And the insulation stuffed inside the cavity is not meant for sound proofing as you found out. R13 will "trap" some degree of higher frequencies but is better suited for damping than for mitigation of travel.

 

[politics123]

You know, I am always amazed that people are willing to compromise on sound. I don't want to sound like a snob (I accept that I probably do) and I do think that due to price there are definitely times to accept a little "kludge". I just can't imagine how the reproduction of music could ever fall into that category. Maybe it's just me but, Coltrane over piss poor speakers sounds just like Coltrane over piss poor speakers. Obviously the same could be said of Led Zeppelin, Underoath, Bach or anyone else you may listen to. Call me crazy.........

As for back boxes, any reputable manufacturer will be happy to provide you with volume measurements that will work most appropriately with how the speaker is voiced. Some are actually designed to work with infinite baffles and thus, back boxes can actually hurt playback. And the insulation stuffed inside the cavity is not meant for sound proofing as you found out. R13 will "trap" some degree of higher frequencies but is better suited for damping than for mitigation of travel.

"Crazy"

...many of us do not want to invest in getting audiophile quality output out of a whole-house audio system. Certainly nobody spending $65/pair of speakers. I have whole-house audio so that when we have a party or social event, the music is everywhere in the background, but nowhere at very high volume (the old way I "distributed" music was blaring it from my main speakers in the family room, so that folks in the kitchen could still hear it... worked as long as you didn't want to talk in the family room!) Also, you ain't going to get enough juice from A-BUS (in my case) to make a difference either way. I have exactly what I want --> a cleanly installed, not so expensive, way to pipe background music to all the social rooms in the house.

I have no doubts that there are better, perhaps more expensive ways, to get extremely good sound, even out of recessed speakers... and that your wants or wallet may be different than mine. :lol:

Thank you for the suggestion on contacting the manufacturers. Isn't there also software out there on the volume/shape/venting for a given speaker?

 

[politics123]

Thanks. Actually my speakers in the kitchen are mounted on a wall with the back being totally open air space. I think I've read somewhere about buliding boxes out of ridgid insulation and then filling that with reg insulation and covering the rear of the speaker. Thjink that would work?

Not a big fan of insulation, rigid or otherwise. It doesn't have enough mass.

 

[CollinR]

Thanks. Actually my speakers in the kitchen are mounted on a wall with the back being totally open air space. I think I've read somewhere about buliding boxes out of ridgid insulation and then filling that with reg insulation and covering the rear of the speaker. Thjink that would work?

Common problem, you should research and perfect.