Kiwkset ZigBee Lock Integration

[rsw686]

I'm looking at purchasing one of these locks. How tight is the integration with the HAI controller? Ideally when entering a code in the lock the HAI controller would check the code list and if the time on/off and valid readers matched the lock would unlock. Or does it not work this way?

 

[ano]

I think you need to reset your expectations a bit. While what you describe is completely possible in the Zigbee Home Automation protocol, HAI and the lock manufacturers have not implemented it that way. The lock transmits and receives "lock" or "unlock" and that is it.

If you have a Zigbee "appliance module" and ONLY the HAI version, it does transmit the power the module is using, and PC Access actually displays it, but even then, the panel can't do much with it. Maybe the Omni Pro III.

 

[rsw686]

I think you need to reset your expectations a bit. While what you describe is completely possible in the Zigbee Home Automation protocol, HAI and the lock manufacturers have not implemented it that way. The lock transmits and receives "lock" or "unlock" and that is it.

Alright so everything is basically independent. Interesting as the only part needed would be the ability to send the user code to the HAI controller. When using a code to unlock the lock how quickly is the HAI controller aware of the status change? Is it quick enough that I could disarm the system or would the entry delay continue beeping for a few seconds?

 

[Desert_AIP]

Zigbee locks are battery powered, so they have to relay their comms through another device.
It should be relatively quick still.
You may get a few beeps.

 

[ano]

I have three Zigbee locks and they aren't especially fast. Much slower than I would have expected. From when I hit "lock" or "unlock" on PC Access, it is around 4 to 5 seconds before the locks change. I think that is pretty slow.

Also, ignoring the speed issue, I don't think I would want the panel to have to verify every code entered. I can tell you that even with two repeaters, the locks are not 100% connected. If communication was lost, which does happens, you would be locked out of your house. At least this way, I can always get in.

 

[rsw686]

Also, ignoring the speed issue, I don't think I would want the panel to have to verify every code entered. I can tell you that even with two repeaters, the locks are not 100% connected. If communication was lost, which does happens, you would be locked out of your house. At least this way, I can always get in.

I haven't had any problem with the two ZigBee thermostats talking with the ZIM. Changes to the thermostat settings happen almost instantly. I know the locks are battery powered and the range is shorter. The door I would be putting the lock on is 15 feet away from the ZIM. If that one worked the next door I would want is 30 feet from the ZIM. How far away are your doors?

With the access codes maybe the best method would be to sync them with the controller. It doesn't feel like a polished product if I have to go to each door and change codes.

 

[Desert_AIP]

The battery powered devices aren't always "on" like the hard wired modules.
They get awakened by their parent modules.
I'd imagine entering a code directly in a lock and it transmitting to the HAI would be a faster comms path than the other way.

So if you entered the code to unlock the lock, the HAI could receive that fairly quickly and programmatically disarm (that's what it sounds like the OP wants).

 

[ano]

Two things to consider. First, keep in mind that the Kwikset locks have two numbers per button. With a regular 4 digit code there are 10 x 10 x 10 x 10 combinations or 10,000, subtracting some you'd never use. With only five buttons it is 5 X 5 X 5 X 5 or 625 combinations. That is only 6% as many. I have made my lock combinations 5 digits which brings it up to 3100.

Second, at least for me, triggering the Omni on a Zigbee lock unlocking has not been reliable, and I'm not sure why. The coding for this on the Omni is a bit weird, like you have to test for a lock changing, then you have to test if its the lock you want. They need to work on this a bit. In any case, before you did it, I would do some testing on your panel to see if its reliable.

 

[JonW]

I use 7 digit code - that is actually a pattern. I doubt the kids or the wife could even tell you the code to unlock the door without really having to think about it because all they know is the pattern. It makes it easier to have a long code this way than some number they need to remember.

I've had no issues triggering on the unlocking or locking of the Zigbee lock. I use a flag to visually show if the lock is currently locked/unlocked. My lock is called "Front Door Deadbolt" and the programming looks like this:

WHEN Front Door Deadbolt
AND IF Front Door Deadbolt IS UNLOCKED
THEN Front Door Deadbolt Status OFF

 

[ano]

A 7 digit code is great, but the original question was asking about having lock codes match panel codes, and since the panel can't use a 7 digits, I think your also saying that, no, the two can't be integrated.

I just memorize the pattern of my 4 digit codes, which works great until they rearrange the number positions, which has happened to me. Then I have no idea what my code is. :wacko:

> WHEN Front Door Deadbolt
> AND IF Front Door Deadbolt IS UNLOCKED
> THEN Front Door Deadbolt Status OFF

Exactly. If a lock only has two states, "UNLOCK" and "LOCK" it is not very logical to have to say:

> WHEN Front Door Deadbolt
> AND IF Front Door Deadbolt IS UNLOCKED

It should be:
WHEN Front Door Deadbolt UNLOCK

You don't have to say:
WHEN Bedroom Ceiling Light
AND IF Bedroom Ceiling Light ON

So why should locks be different?

 

[JonW]

Locks are different because they follow the reporting/control options that access control readers have. Unfortunately Kwikset only implemented the lock and unlock options, but what if they had actually implemented user code reporting and access grant/failure reporting? Then you'd be writing code lines EXACTLY like the HAI Access Control Reader does.

To answer the original question of having the codes integrated, no they cannot be as Kwikset did not implement it that way.

 

[picta]

Unfortunately Kwikset only implemented the lock and unlock options, but what if they had actually implemented user code reporting and access grant/failure reporting? Then you'd be writing code lines EXACTLY like the HAI Access Control Reader does.

To answer the original question of having the codes integrated, no they cannot be as Kwikset did not implement it that way.

Kwikset did implement a lot of access control functions, it is HAI OP that does not use them all yet. Part of the reason could be that zwave transmission is not reliable and HAI does not want to offer some security feature that cannot work 100% of the time. It is actually polling the lock continuously to keep track of its status. Even then the lock status can be off if it ran out of batteries or the interface is faulting.

 

[john999]

I've also found them to be VERY unreliable. I've called Kwikset tech support and they are sticking to their 100 ft range claims (which are bs). HAI tech support wasn't much help either. I cant even get mine to work reliably with a zigbee repeater switch 10 feet from the door. So far...I still have not been able to get them working like I want...very disappointed with this feature. I'd go with a different brand, or hardwire door strikes.

 

[ano]

I've also noticed that the Zigbee locks become "unavailable" several days before the red LED starts flashing. Shouldn't it report low battery BEFORE it stops working?

 

[picta]

Cheap, Reliable, Easy (to install, integrate, find etc.) - pick two for your HA device. The wireless locks are easy to install and relatively inexpensive. For reliable solution choose wired (strike or deadbolt). Applies to lighting too....