KLD Water Valve Install Guide

[pete_c]

Great pictures.  Something is going on here as I have now tried to type this message 3 times and am getting wierd gateway errors.
 
Here is the download page for Polyview.  Think it works OK without registration. (32 bit version)
 
http://www.polybytes.com/download.htm
 
I am using the above posted Elk board for my doorbell ringer connection.
 
It is utilized with the Elk debounce circuit board.  (playing with other generic debounce circuit boards lately).
 
I found another link for the Elk 924 drawing here:
 
http://www.elkproducts.com/_literature_63585/ELK-924_Instructions
 
I will take your drawing and over lay it over the picture of the schematic.

 

[CharlieWayne]

Thanks for doing the drawing pete. I do want to learn these software tools but lack time this week.

The hardware stuff is second nature to me so that's a walk in the park.

I still have more ideas and will also look into either digital and analog sensors such as pressure.

This will be something else when done and I'm happy that I can give back to the folks that have helped me before.

 

[pete_c]

I cannot upload the drawing; used up all my storage space.  I am uploading it to dropbox.
 
What is the solder points for open and close; is it W4 and W1 and is W4 closed and W1 open?
 
Having the drawing will me a bunch as I go slow with this stuff; soldering et al. 
 
I tried to link the picture here but it will not. - Shrink it down and uploaded it to CT.  Dropbox is a full sized picture.
 
Yup here using a mix of brass and some soldering of copper for the valve - preference is to use brass fittings.  Thinking of mounting it in a horizontal position rather than a vertical. 
 
Its been a while that I installed the analog pressure guages; but would leave those in place and add digital guages here.  Don't really pay that much attention to the pressure guages these days.  Early after installation though pressure averaged around 25 Ibs (which really wasn't good).
 

 
 
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/b4lfi7wk3plefzs/kafjCBDS5X

 

[CharlieWayne]

What is the solder points for open and close; is it W4 and W1 and is W4 closed and W1 open?

 
I updated my post in #7 of this thread with wiring instructions and re did a drawing with Google Drawing. I tried that program you suggested but couldn't understand how to use it. Thanks for your help even though I couldn't make it work. 
 
These solder point have nothing to do with us opening or closing the valves. Within the PCB board it utilizes limit switches to stop the electric motor when the valve is completely open or closed.
 
What Bucko was suggesting is that we might be able to tap into one of these switches and wire it into our "input" of our alarm panels, which would allow us to create a device code within HS so we can know the actual state of the valve. (whether its open of closed). Without a input such as this we rely on a "theoretical state".
 
I dont see the cams he is talking about in previous post and am waiting back for his response to my detailed pics. Once I get power to one of these valves I can start checking voltage on the PCB and Contact switches to see if we can add something like what he suggests. 

 

[bucko]

Here is the wiring I did for my valve with my modded wires for a zone closure. I use 2 relays on the Elk for control opening and closing. This way the valve is not powered unless it is being opened or closed. I remains at whatever state it was last moved to.
 
In Elk rules I also made a rule that if either output is fired, then toggle the output off after 14 seconds. 
 
This has been working well and allows full automation within my Vera HA controller for automation.
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:668]

 

[bucko]

This is the pic of the
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:670]
 
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:669]
micro switch to use for the zone wires.

 

[bucko]

I see the problem here with your switches. I use the "B5" model which has the unused switch in it. From Charlie's photo, you all have a "B2" which does not have this switch. I am not sure how you all will be able to create a zone wire. 
Still, my schematic of the electrical using the Elk M1RB relays should work for you for control.

 

[Automate]

Looks like from the spec sheets you have to have an "S" in the wiring part of the number such as "B3S" to get the extra dry contact switches.  But I also see a  * Note 2 "Valve with manual override does not have feedback signal function" on the size 20 value spec sheet.  I think we all wanted the manual override.

 

[pete_c]

These solder point have nothing to do with us opening or closing the valves. Within the PCB board it utilizes limit switches to stop the electric motor when the valve is completely open or closed.

 
Thanks Charlie; yup always knew this.  Just wanted to know the solder points for the status.  I was looking for both the solder points and the status microswitch on the inside of the valve. 
 
Hence the request of pictures of the inside of your valve (have not opened mine yet).
 
That said though looks like we have a different valve than what Bucko is utilizing (as pictured above). 
 
I would be fine with some sort of virtual status though.
 

This way the valve is not powered unless it is being opened or closed. I remains at whatever state it was last moved to.

 
Bucko, can you please post a bigger picture (schematic)? 
 
Here I would just utilize the same on and off (open and closed) voltage to provide the virtual status (with no additional inside wiring).
 
New drawing now.  This drawing would show our valve model (as above) using two voltage inputs (on and off) with an indirectly connected (to the supply voltage) solenoid maybe to drive the zone on and off stuff.  Then really we do not need to add anything inside of the switch; just utilize the existing wires.  Might also be able to utilize the Elk 924 (or two of them?) to provide status maybe?  Today I use the doorbell setup with two Elk boards (one is providing a debounce circuit).  Don't really need a debounce circuit here but the 924 supply voltage should be enough to provide zone status. (well with the rest of the 924 stuff).

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I noticed in the outside case pic that there is some kind of cam that seems to rotate with the valve opening/closing.  Why not just make a rod piece that goes over that cam that will then rotate with it, then incorporate some mechanical type position switches or magnet that will come in contact with two sensors creating a 'position' status of the valve?  No sense soldering into its board.
 

 

[CharlieWayne]

I noticed in the outside case pic that there is some kind of cam that seems to rotate with the valve opening/closing.  Why not just make a rod piece that goes over that cam that will then rotate with it, then incorporate some mechanical type position switches or magnet that will come in contact with two sensors creating a 'position' status of the valve?  No sense soldering into its board.
 
valve.jpg

That's thinking outside the box.

The small knob that's missing is used to manually open and close the valve. The larger circle with the line is to physically see the position or state of the valve.

The small knob turns at like 25:1 (I just made that number up) in relationship to the actual valve for ease of the operator when manually opening or closing.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Oh, so that top knob will make multiple turns (circles) then?  If so, this will not work.

 

[CharlieWayne]

Oh, so that top knob will make multiple turns (circles) then?  If so, this will not work.

 
Yes it does turn multiple times (ie 25:1 or 10:1) or whatever it really its

 

[CharlieWayne]

Looked at the B5 diagram from KDL and they using ground switching to reverse the motor and that won't work for us. Apples to Oranges here cause we only have two wires of the B2 and to change the position we simply reverse the polarity of these two wires. 
 
Safest way is to achieve this would be to use the DPDT like I said above in post 7 but I'm open to other ideas if I'm not seeing another way. One of the easiest model would have been the B3 which would only require two relay outputs. But thats not what we have here. 
 
Maybe I will go back to my diagram and expand more in it. 
 
. 

 

[bucko]

That's thinking outside the box.

The small knob that's missing is used to manually open and close the valve. The larger circle with the line is to physically see the position or state of the valve.

The small knob turns at like 25:1 (I just made that number up) in relationship to the actual valve for ease of the operator when manually opening or closing.

 
Also with the knob pushed in, it does not turn anyway.