I know it doesn't speak to the original complaint about the large number of devices being slow, but I wanted to respond to the Home settings kit - FWIW my first purchase was a Homesettings lamp module and a GE On/off switch. I later added some homesettings dimmers (2) and 2 more lamp modules from the kit, but haven't used the ha07 just yet., but all work very quickly (in the range of instantly) when using a Logitech 890. My 890 has died a horrible death very prematurely (dang you logitech!), so I'm working on rebuilding my network using the ha07 and hopefully when I get some money I'll be able to get some software and a usb stick. I did briefly try the ha07 and noticed performance with dimming wasn't as fast, so I would be very interested to see what the various response times are with controllers themselves.
Leviton says max 30-35 devices for reliable ViziaRF Z-Wave network.
- Thread starter johnnynine
- Start date
Doh, my RZC0P just failed on me last night?!? I kept getting X002 transmission, then the thing became unresponsive. I unplugged/pugged it back in and it worked for a short period then became completely unresponsive again. The received text during the restart showed it was an old model from 2006.
Everything was working fine for many months... I've ordered the controlthink stick/software and a VRC0P to experiment/troubleshoot. Does anyone know if I set the controlthink stick as the primary controller can I remove the stick later or does the software and stick need to stay in operation for the network to remain working properly?
Everything was working fine for many months... I've ordered the controlthink stick/software and a VRC0P to experiment/troubleshoot. Does anyone know if I set the controlthink stick as the primary controller can I remove the stick later or does the software and stick need to stay in operation for the network to remain working properly?
ddennerline
Active Member
I use VRC0P with ControlThink Pro, and they work fine together.
The ControlThink USB Z-Wave controller does not need to be installed, online, 24x7. In my case, ControlThink is active/running only when new devices are installed or troubleshooting network .
One nice feature of the USB stick is the ability to save/archive network onto the USB. I move the stick from laptop to desktop, and the network configuration is properly synchronized between two systems.
I have not used feature, but ControlThink can attach itself to existing Z-Wave network; just in case your primary controller dies.
The ControlThink USB Z-Wave controller does not need to be installed, online, 24x7. In my case, ControlThink is active/running only when new devices are installed or troubleshooting network .
One nice feature of the USB stick is the ability to save/archive network onto the USB. I move the stick from laptop to desktop, and the network configuration is properly synchronized between two systems.
I have not used feature, but ControlThink can attach itself to existing Z-Wave network; just in case your primary controller dies.
What provides all of these features is not anything ControlThink did, it is the Zensys controller library used in the stick. There are a few types of libraries, or code collections available for controllers, one of which being the Installer library, which is what is used usually by handheld (mobile) controllers. Part of the features of the library in these controllers is the ability to write the HomeID and node information through an API call rather than only being able to do replication. Thus in our software we present an option to backup or restore your network where we write/read the network information to a file on the hard drive. So for example if you wanted to change controllers and the one you are coming from and going to both support the Installer library, then this is very easy to do and you do not need to re-add all of your nodes to the network. Of course when you do something like that, you need to rebuild the routing table in the controller, so you should do "Request Node Neighbor Update", "Assign Return Route", and send some Null Operation commands to allow the controller to get a good foothold of routing information.
Moving the controller itself between computers always retains your network, as all of the node information is stored in the controller. However, if you do not have the Installer library, then the library assumes you are in a static location, and so a dramatic move from point A to point B in the network could also necessitate all of the above routing optimization items because MOST Z-Wave libraries are written for fixed location routing.
Does this mean I should not use the Leviton handheld controller (VRCPG-BSG) as the primary controller unless I plan to leave it in a specific location when it's not in use?
I programed and optimized the network near the secondary VRC0P controller. However, my home is multilevel, so once the routes were set and the network optimized, I moved the VRCPG-BSG to a different level in my home and eventually to a metal drawer (doh!).
PS: I also found out that if you use the VRCPG-BSG and allow the batteries to die, this can affect network communications. I think this was the real issue my RZC0P was having. Once I found the VRCPG-BSG (the primary controller), it was in a metal drawer and the batteries were almost dead! I've now keep the VRCPG-BSG in a central location (this time not in a metal enclosure
) and bought a 6V power supply for it from walmart.
I programed and optimized the network near the secondary VRC0P controller. However, my home is multilevel, so once the routes were set and the network optimized, I moved the VRCPG-BSG to a different level in my home and eventually to a metal drawer (doh!).
PS: I also found out that if you use the VRCPG-BSG and allow the batteries to die, this can affect network communications. I think this was the real issue my RZC0P was having. Once I found the VRCPG-BSG (the primary controller), it was in a metal drawer and the batteries were almost dead! I've now keep the VRCPG-BSG in a central location (this time not in a metal enclosure
) and bought a 6V power supply for it from walmart.No, as a handheld controller is going to have the Installer library, so it is designed to route based upon some pseudo random node numbers because it does not know where it is at any time. A static controller will route based upon routing tables and known frequently used nodes. The handheld being primary or secondary makes no difference.
Tink,
This is all great information, thank you! Where would a good place be for a DIY'er to study z-wave best practices and how the network works internally. I read a Leviton manual a while back that had some best practices, but it didn't have a deep technical explanation of what's going on as your explanation does.
This is all great information, thank you! Where would a good place be for a DIY'er to study z-wave best practices and how the network works internally. I read a Leviton manual a while back that had some best practices, but it didn't have a deep technical explanation of what's going on as your explanation does.
Unfortunately I know of no good resource that is available publicly. I wouldn't call the Leviton information very good either as they do not even support a full network (232 nodes) nor do they do Request Node Neighbor Update. ControlThink was on their own before joining Leviton, so Chris knows his stuff. Even the Zensys documentation, which cannot be shared because it is marked confidential, provides a wealth of technical information, but nothing "real world" that compares and contrasts the different types of nodes, especially when used in a mixed environment.
If you go to Wikipedia there are articles on Z-Wave, which will give you the base information. Then, there is a Wiki at our website, and I can tell you that the Z-Wave information there is quite dated and may not help much, but I will make an effort to update it, something I have been meaning to do anyway, so if you keep an eye on it perhaps I will get to that soon. I just checked... last updated January 09, but the information is not as bad as I thought - might help - I will still try to update/add to it soon. Go to HomeSeer.com, then click Support, then HomeSeer Wiki, then there is a link at the top to Z-Wave (for all articles that mention it) and then click the Z-Wave topic.
johnnynine
Active Member
Thanks for the thoughts.
#1 I do have 1 non Leviton device.
#2. I use Elve (of course ) which has a reliable ViziaRF driver (with retry support on failed transmissions) and it works very well in my home with the RZC0P... it works better for me then the ViziaRF wall controllers actually.
According to the techs I spoke with the RZC0P and VRC0P are the same devices, just different names.
Thanks
#1 I do have 1 non Leviton device.
#2. I use Elve (of course
) which has a reliable ViziaRF driver (with retry support on failed transmissions) and it works very well in my home with the RZC0P... it works better for me then the ViziaRF wall controllers actually.According to the techs I spoke with the RZC0P and VRC0P are the same devices, just different names.
Thanks
johnnynine
Active Member
I finally swapped out one of my ViziaRF (zwave) remote switches that was used as a virtual 3way switch for a hardwired Vizia (not ViziaRF) coordinating remote switches and WOW I can finally turn on/off the light at the remote switch instantly. It was getting quite dangerous walking into a room after clicking the light switch and waiting anywhere from 0 to 45 seconds for the light to come on.
If you have the traveler wire between your switches I highly recommend not using a ViziaRF zwave remote switch in favor of the Vizia coordinating remote switch which uses the traveler wire.
If you have the traveler wire between your switches I highly recommend not using a ViziaRF zwave remote switch in favor of the Vizia coordinating remote switch which uses the traveler wire.
Thanks for the tip John. I haven't tried a scene controller, but they look neat. Was your software triggering the scene event or were you using the scene controller alone? It sounds like you can still use the controllers to trigger events via Elve and use the buttons for things that aren't time critical?
I finally own a large home (moved from a small apartment) and I'm considering buying 30 light modules. I won't have any scene controllers as I'm going to use software to controll scenes (the VRC0P protocol supports this). I'm curious about how things turned out for you?
I finally own a large home (moved from a small apartment) and I'm considering buying 30 light modules. I won't have any scene controllers as I'm going to use software to controll scenes (the VRC0P protocol supports this). I'm curious about how things turned out for you?
johnnynine
Active Member
I've been slowly replacing single button zone/scene controller switches and dimmers with coordinating Vizia devices in my home and I am happy with the results so far. The coordinating switches & dimmers don't have the LED under the button like the ViziaRF devices do but that is the only negative I have found.
Elve and the VZR0P have done a great job so no complaints there. The issues I have had were only regarding certain controller switches and had nothing to do with Elve. I use Elve to turn on/off lights based on certain events such as motion, arriving home, leaving home, etc. That works very well and it is fairly rare that the VZR0P fails to communicate with a device but I have seen it happen (keep in mind I believe my home has more than normal RF interference in it). While Elve does support scenes I don't do much with scenes... even from the wall scene controls. Scenes are slow and somewhat unreliable in my home... zones work better for me.
A non-software issue is the only issue I've had too. If someone manually turned a switch on/off, the feedback takes a few seconds (sometimes longer) for the VRC0P to receive and send the string to the serial port on my PC. This means that if I rely on software to turn on other lights once a switch is manuall operated the other set of lights takes a few seconds to turn on! I assume the same is true if I use a scene controller and that there would always be a small delay (usually 2-3 seconds). I haven't figured out a way to solve this.
As you point out, it is definitely a hardware issue. I can use port spy and time how long the two way feedback takes. This really isn't a big deal as I now use the two way feedback for non time sensitive things like setting an occupancy timer to turn lights off after x mintues. The feedback does comes in and is always processed, but it could be 3-10 seconds later.
I'm curious if this issue is what you were experiencing with the scene controllers... I was hoping that upon a manual press, feedback receipt by the VRC0P would be instantaneous for scene controllers. I had always planned on buying a four button scene controller to trigger software scripts... Of course turning lights on is always instaneous, it's only the feedback from manual operation that I'm talking about. I've tested dimmers and switches and they all seem to act this way. I haven't tested a scene controller yet...
I'm surprised about your scene issue. I'm assuming if you let Elve manage your scenes and not use the vizia scene controllers and remotes, that they would work much better. I haven't tried this though.
As you point out, it is definitely a hardware issue. I can use port spy and time how long the two way feedback takes. This really isn't a big deal as I now use the two way feedback for non time sensitive things like setting an occupancy timer to turn lights off after x mintues. The feedback does comes in and is always processed, but it could be 3-10 seconds later.
I'm curious if this issue is what you were experiencing with the scene controllers... I was hoping that upon a manual press, feedback receipt by the VRC0P would be instantaneous for scene controllers. I had always planned on buying a four button scene controller to trigger software scripts... Of course turning lights on is always instaneous, it's only the feedback from manual operation that I'm talking about. I've tested dimmers and switches and they all seem to act this way. I haven't tested a scene controller yet...
I'm surprised about your scene issue. I'm assuming if you let Elve manage your scenes and not use the vizia scene controllers and remotes, that they would work much better. I haven't tried this though.
