Lighting standard recommendations with Elk in control.

[HighTest]

Now that I've moved to an Elk M1G sercurity/automation controller, I'm seriously looking at implementing the lighting controlls that I've been intending to do for some time.

I've a few (very limited and not a problem to switch "no pun intended" to something else) of X10 and Insteon hat I've been playing arround with for some time. Other than linking to each other, I've not actually used them for automation yet.

Lately I've been reading some threads that indicate that there are several that are not happy with the current state of Insteon (many of these on the SmartHome forums, the makers of the Insteon products). In addition, I don't like the lack of speed of response with X10.

So, if I'm really going to be doing a significant investment into lighting controll (and other devices implemented with that control standard), what do you all suggest? UPB, Z-Wave? What looks the most promising and likely to acheive a high-WAF factor? She's ready for the lighting controll but has stressed that it's got to be solid or her acceptance will deminish quickly.

Thanks All!

 

[Squintz]

Now that I've moved to an Elk M1G sercurity/automation controller, I'm seriously looking at implementing the lighting controlls that I've been intending to do for some time.

I've a few (very limited and not a problem to switch "no pun intended" to something else) of X10 and Insteon hat I've been playing arround with for some time. Other than linking to each other, I've not actually used them for automation yet.

Lately I've been reading some threads that indicate that there are several that are not happy with the current state of Insteon (many of these on the SmartHome forums, the makers of the Insteon products). In addition, I don't like the lack of speed of response with X10.

So, if I'm really going to be doing a significant investment into lighting controll (and other devices implemented with that control standard), what do you all suggest? UPB, Z-Wave? What looks the most promising and likely to acheive a high-WAF factor? She's ready for the lighting controll but has stressed that it's got to be solid or her acceptance will deminish quickly.

Thanks All!

Why do just one? I just ordered a W800RF for X10 communication and I already own the Elk Z-Wave module. I purchased a few wireless motion sensors(X10) and the Serial Expander which is required for the W800RF. So I will be able to write rules to control my Z-Wave devices based off of X10 device events.

I'm still a fan of Vizia RF Z-Wave devices.

 

[upstatemike]

If I was doing things over I would probably plug an XTB-II into the TW523 connection on the M1 and go with good quality Levition X10 switches. (I am a little disappointed with the shortcomings in all of the new lighting protocol offerings at the moment.)

 

[Steve]

Well, I did UPB and given the option to do it over, all things equal, I would choose it again, except now I would look at the PCS Gen II stuff seriously.

 

[robolo]

I've been very happy with my UPB's controlled by ELK and the new generation UPB has even faster response times.

 

[johnnynine]

I switched from Insteon to Leviton Vizia-RF which in my opinion is a much better product, pricier too. But we are still waiting for support from Elk.

 

[MikeB]

I'm happy with my Insteon install, but I'd recommend purchasing a few of each to try them out and see what works best for you. Every technology has it's shortcomings, and only you can decide what best fits your needs.

When you're done, post up what you don't need for sale, or eBay it - you'll probably get at least 50% if your money back, and it will have been well worth the trouble.

 

[upstatemike]

I switched from Insteon to Leviton Vizia-RF which in my opinion is a much better product, pricier too. But we are still waiting for support from Elk.

Been looking at Z-Wave (In case I have to abandon Insteon) but a couple of things are bugging me:

1) Didn't early controllers have a limit of 64 switches? Is this no longer true?

2) Doesn't a Z-Wave installation freak out if you move a plugin module to a new location someplace else in your house?

3) Aren't there issues when mixing brands with Z-Wave? ie Vizia does not work with Intermatic etc?

4) Aren't Z-wave switches almost twice as deep as Insteon switches?

5) Don't Z-Wave switches use hard wired 3-way slaves instead of just using the native RF communication for 3-way situations?

6) Don't some Z-Wave switches fail to report manual operation?

 

[MikeB]

4) Aren't Z-wave switches almost twice as deep as Insteon switches?

Holy cow! If that's true, I could never install them in my house.

 

[shenandoah75]

1) Didn't early controllers have a limit of 64 switches? Is this no longer true?

viziarf allows 128 devices

2) Doesn't a Z-Wave installation freak out if you move a plugin module to a new location someplace else in your house?

i don't think so - is the issue with the routing? i don't think that's a big deal. I haven't installed my first plugin module, but will be doing so this weekend and will let you know.


3) Aren't there issues when mixing brands with Z-Wave? ie Vizia does not work with Intermatic etc?

they shoudl be fine, but only viziarf supports two-comm is my understanding


4) Aren't Z-wave switches almost twice as deep as Insteon switches?

not sure, but i haven't had a problem yet and i've got them installed in every single/dual/triple/quad JBox in my house. Unless you have bundles of neutrals with like 8 wires n a blue nut or something, you shoudl be fine


5) Don't Z-Wave switches use hard wired 3-way slaves instead of just using the native RF communication for 3-way situations?

no (well you don't have to that is). I use 1 zone controllers in my viziarf setup. No traveler/hardwire in any of my three way installs (currently 4 of them)


6) Don't some Z-Wave switches fail to report manual operation?

if you mean report as in to another device than the initiator, i don't think that's true with leviton's two way.... But as j9 noted, elk doesn't support the two way yet. In the three way zone controller setup, both correctly register. And with scene controllers, manual changes are registered (i.e. scene led goes out when it's altered)



Knowing elk support is coming , i think viziarf is a good choice. I was on the fence iwth this or UPB.

 

[shenandoah75]

Oh ya and if WAF is important, my wife loves the viziarf stuff!!! for dimming, scene control, having lights on at night automatically, etc

Just to clarify J9's respons, Elk supports most basic zwave functionality voa M1XZW, just not vizia's two way communication yet (waiting on the serial expander upgrade for that). It also can't do scenes as viziarf implements them, and i've been unable to use fade rate in the rules and i don't think toggle doesn't work either.

We only have one problem in our whole install and it's limited to remote control of devices in one particular jbox. Still trying to debug, but despite tat she loves it and thinks it was a good investment.

thx
-brad

 

[KenM]

4) Aren't Z-wave switches almost twice as deep as Insteon switches?

My Vizia-RF Z-Wave switches are about the same depth of an INSTEON KPL switch. The Visia-RF switches have push in wire connections available so you can also save the space taken by wire nuts. None of the other Z-Wave switches that I tried out had a larger foot print than a KPL.

My big benefit came from the dimmers not requiring a neutral (the relay modules do require a neutral). I removed the, non-code, added on neutrals in my 1958 vintage house when I took out the INSTEON switches for the last time, last year. At least now if the house burns down they will not be able to blame jury-rigged wiring added on to make INSTEON work. A big plus for those of us with older homes.

Ken

edit added:
On moving the modules around:
With HomeSeer 2, you are able to 'optimize the network' which basically tells all the modules to rediscover their neighbors and update the routing tables. I'm guessing most other software will allow this also.
K

 

[upstatemike]

4) Aren't Z-wave switches almost twice as deep as Insteon switches?

My Vizia-RF Z-Wave switches are about the same depth of an INSTEON KPL switch. The Visia-RF switches have push in wire connections available so you can also save the space taken by wire nuts. None of the other Z-Wave switches that I tried out had a larger foot print than a KPL.

Ken

This is good to know. A lot of the switches I added were done using medium depth wiremold boxes because there was no way to go inside the wall. There is no way I could get PCS dimmers in these boxes but Insteon fits OK. Good to know that Z-Wave switches will too.

 

[upstatemike]

After doing some more research I'm thinking I like the Cooper Aspire line best among the Z-Wave offerings... anybody have any experience with these?

 

[HighTest]

http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=8771 is a poll thread that I created to allow easy voting for the different standards recommendations. Just thought I'd reference that thread in this one.

Thanks again for your suggestions!