Yes, actually, it could have been far worse. It didn't get any of the TVs, or my Mac, or any of my music gear. (None of it was on at the time.) I have about 15 other devices, mostly HAI, that were unaffected. All of the RC1000s are still working. And it didn't get any of the kitchen appliances.
Lightning!
- Thread starter cornutt
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Yes, actually, it could have been far worse. It didn't get any of the TVs, or my Mac, or any of my music gear. (None of it was on at the time.) I have about 15 other devices, mostly HAI, that were unaffected. All of the RC1000s are still working. And it didn't get any of the kitchen appliances.
Dave X10
Active Member
My backyard was hit 2 years ago. I lost a handful of things that I noticed following the storm... all my security cameras, a couple modules, and a router. Nothing worth an insurance claim.
Then in the following 2-3 weeks several electronic devices ether failed... or were discovered to not work. I lost all three of my TV's, a compact radio, the cable box and router, a microwave. One TV continued to work... but it's tuner would only receive a handful of stations. I replaced everything out-of-pocket.
Thank God no one was hurt. And to be honest.. I actually liked replacing the 36" tube TV with a 42" LCD. My new router made my laptop quicker when on-line. And I think I like my new camera setup better.
apostolakisl
Senior Member
I think a whole house surge supressor is of limited value when lightning actually hits your house. I think they mostly protect against surges comming in from the street power lines. The idea is that they dump excess juice to ground, but when lightening comes in through a circuit in your house it will hit everything on that circuit before getting dumped to ground. Plus your 14 guage wall wire is not going to handle all of those amps and the power will try jumping off that wire and onto any other wire nearby potentially taking phone wire, cat 5, cable wire, plumbing, or anything else conductive to your precious electronics and frying them on its way to Earth.
Lightning rods are connected to massive conductors, like the size of my thumb, becuase the amps are so high that anything smaller will pose too much resistance and at least some of the electricity will jump to other conductors and fry your stuff.
With lightning, you just hope that the electricity finds the cheapest pathway to Earth once it hits your house.
Lightning rods are connected to massive conductors, like the size of my thumb, becuase the amps are so high that anything smaller will pose too much resistance and at least some of the electricity will jump to other conductors and fry your stuff.
With lightning, you just hope that the electricity finds the cheapest pathway to Earth once it hits your house.
pete_c
Guru
I've added about 4 more exterior outlets to the home on separate circuits to the panel over the last few years. The OPII is on a circuit with whatever is nearby (Leviton Panel (small AC/DC transformers). The telephone line is underground but still concerned if there was a hit down the line.
The highest point in the home is where my wired weather station, GPS antenna, lightning sensor and DTV antenna is. All of these roof devices are grounded before they enter the home via a ground stake. The outside telephone dmark is also grounded to same stake. The highest of three trees is adjacent to the home and now reaches the top section of the two story home but it is not higher than the roof peak.
Still not sure on best direction for surge protection of the fuse panel yet. I am in a relatively "new" subdivision that is about 10 years old with no trees older than 10 years old. All infrastructure utilities (electric, phone, TV BB) are underground. Many of the dmark boxes for said utilities are higher than the properties (poor subdivision topology planning?). Will an under $200 surge protection at panel device offer similiar protection than a $600 and above device?
Two years ago neighbors across the street has a close lighting strike that came in via their BB cable. I looked at their BB cable wiring and it appeared that the lighting ground arrestor had been disconnected. Interior to the home many devices where taken out by the lighting strike.
Got the board back today! Everything on the board seems to be working well. Now the bad news: of my three RC1000s, only one of them will communicate on the bus. Are the other two blown? Appears so, although I need to do a few checks to make sure it isn't the bus wiring. But that seems unlikely considering that all three of them are home-run to the controller.
Question: is it possible to use the wireless capability of the RC1000 to communicate with the OPII via wireless Ethernet? I was under the impression that the RC1000 only uses that for wireless remote sensors.
fcwilt
Active Member
Just joined the "Lightning let out the Magic Smoke" club! 
Haven't figured out exactly where the hit was but lost a bunch of gear: electric dog fence, GFI outlet, phone service (back now), ELK mainboard, ELK input module, ELK output module, ELK surge suppressor, irrigation interface to HA, RCS 485 TR40s thermostats (3), RCS 485 thermostat hub, various network switches (5).
Waiting for further things to find and things to fail.
What fun!
Haven't figured out exactly where the hit was but lost a bunch of gear: electric dog fence, GFI outlet, phone service (back now), ELK mainboard, ELK input module, ELK output module, ELK surge suppressor, irrigation interface to HA, RCS 485 TR40s thermostats (3), RCS 485 thermostat hub, various network switches (5).
Waiting for further things to find and things to fail.
What fun!
fcwilt
Active Member
Yes, whole house and point of use (many of these).
The only place I have found any burn marks is on the surge suppressor for the electric dog fence wire, the two wires from the fence (out in the yard, underground) run through this unit and into the actual fence driver unit. The suppressor is plugged into a AC outlet, I suppose to pick up a ground.
All of this fence stuff is located in the garage - where the GFI, 3 of the ELK units and the irrigation interface were located - all of which died. So I suppose that the surge could have been picked up by the fence wire (underground) and conveyed somehow to these other units.
Aside from the fence suppressor, the ELK suppressor and the GFI outlet, ALL of the other affected equipment was on the ethernet network. There was a run of CAT6 from the garage to the basement where a switch and ELK mainboard died. There is also a run of CAT6 from this basement area to the outside across the backyard (underground), down to the dock. There were runs of CAT6 (inside) from this switch to the other switches which died.
The ELK suppressor was connected to the phone wire which also runs outside, underground.
Perhaps some or all of the underground wires picked up a damaging impluse and took out some of the connected items. Don't know - don't know how to find out.
Of course there was a lot of connected equipment that wasn't affected - at least so far - perhaps in time other units will fail. Oddly the lights didn't flicker a bit.
All in all it's been a very interesting experience - the wife hasn't said a negative thing yet and she thinks most of the HA stuff is for the birds.
If anything interesting happens I will keep you posted. Waiting now for lots of replacement parts to arrive.
apostolakisl
Senior Member
I doubt the lightening got into your house from entering wires that were underground. Lightening goes to ground and dies there. Perhaps the wires were above ground somewhere near the lightening strike, the current arced onto the wire and was conducted into your house. That can happen if the underground wires are insulated (as they would be unless they were grounding wires). Small gauge wires with flimsy insulation like cat 5 would not be able to conduct much current, but the kind of stuff that cat 5 would be plugged into dosn't tolerate hardly any inappropriatelty placed current. If a cat 5 wire got hit with a large load it would just vaporize and may end up conducting practically nothing into the house.
Uninsulated wires buried in the yard and connected to as much stuff in your house as possible is exactly what you would do to try to limit lightening stike damage. In the event that lightening got into your house, it gives the electricity a way to get out of your house and to ground in the least destructive way. Still some stuff would get fried, just less stuff. Covering your whole house with a mesh of wires and connecting it to ground would be the most extreme way to protect your house (a giant faraday cage).
Uninsulated wires buried in the yard and connected to as much stuff in your house as possible is exactly what you would do to try to limit lightening stike damage. In the event that lightening got into your house, it gives the electricity a way to get out of your house and to ground in the least destructive way. Still some stuff would get fried, just less stuff. Covering your whole house with a mesh of wires and connecting it to ground would be the most extreme way to protect your house (a giant faraday cage).
While I used to believe that, I have to politely disagree these days. I had a 65' tree hit last August that was 12' off the front of my house. The lightning traveled down the outside of the tree leaving a pair of spiraling burn marks that ripped the bark off, went into the ground (scorch marks) and came into my house through the gas meter that was about 15' away. Cast iron lines inside carried the current quite well.
I did a detailed write-up of it on this board. My experience was similar - lost quite a but of Elk gear, Tstats, ALC Switches (switches worked, RS485 dead) along with Ethernet devices. On the Ethernet side there are a number of small switches through the house and if the run was < 10' the equipment was undamaged but greater than that and the port (or port group) was taken out.
On the 120V A/C side I lost a 1 furnace (lightning actually blew out the flex before it burned up the control board, hit the rcs tstat controller and traveled through the 12VDC power and Ethernet via the 485/Ethernet bridge) and a fridge that was about 6' away.
Non-electrical damage - the firefighters going through the entire house did more damage than the lightning.
Interestingly enough - the Elk survived long enough for the heat-rise in the HVAC closet to trip while they were there and it was commented that "it was loud enough we couldn't communicate" and "we've never had an alarm tell us where the fire was".
I wish those of you that are going through it now good luck - I am still putting some pieces back together. Search for my posting from last September if you want the rest.
Jay
fcwilt
Active Member
I believe that to be a over simplification - there is a huge amount of power in a strike - in can carry a long way before it disipates.
There also may be induced current to consider.
There is no sign on the outside of my house to indicate a strike. All wiring in the neighborhood is buried. Yes there are bits that are exposed where the enter my house but, as I said, no evidence of a strike.
I was talking to my electrician who came by to replace the GFI outlet. He was telling me of five popular trees outside his place of business. Over the years three of the trees have been hit (only one tree hit per storm). Each time one of the shop garage door openers was fried. I don't think the earth is that great of a ground.
apostolakisl
Senior Member
Earth is by definition ground and all lightening strikes have to end there. It is not only the best ground, it is the only ground. Everything that is properly grounded in your house is connected to Earth by a conductor (wire or metal pipe). It is very common for ligtening to hit a tree and travel down the tree and then jump off the tree at some point through air and hit something else nearby, like a house. I suppose it is possible by some bizaare soil conditions that you have a patch of Earth in your yard that is electrically isolated from the rest of the planet, but I doubt it. There are tons of valid reports demonstrating lightening arcing off of things and onto other things (tree to house) but I have never seen one where lightening is climbing up out of Earth. Plus, if lightening strikes had a propensity to exit Earth and go back into buildings, every lightening rod ever installed would not only be useless, but would be counter productive as they would help lightening get up onto your building. The same would hold true for everything in your house that is grounded. If you truly believe that lightening that has entered the soil will exit that soil and enter buildings then you should go through your house and unground everything.
I am sure that had there been a camera trained on that tree you would have seen most of the electricity go down the tree into Earth, and you would have also seen a side arc pop off of the tree and hit your house or whatever was connected to your house. Wood is a crappy conductor so electricity would have been "looking for" any other routes it could find.
Earth is even where all of your household current goes. The common (white wire) is connected to a rod in most peoples back yard. Sometimes it is connected to a grounding wire from the electric company but then they spike it into a rod in the ground someplace near your house.
I am sure that had there been a camera trained on that tree you would have seen most of the electricity go down the tree into Earth, and you would have also seen a side arc pop off of the tree and hit your house or whatever was connected to your house. Wood is a crappy conductor so electricity would have been "looking for" any other routes it could find.
Earth is even where all of your household current goes. The common (white wire) is connected to a rod in most peoples back yard. Sometimes it is connected to a grounding wire from the electric company but then they spike it into a rod in the ground someplace near your house.
pete_c
Guru
Frederick, glad no one was hurt.
My sister had a tree hit by lightning about a week and a half ago. It was not a very large tree (less than 20 feet in height) and about 30 feet from the house. It didn't cause any electronic damage. The tree though had to be removed as the lightning split the tree in half.
In the 1970's I helped a friend install a CB antenna on the roof of his ranch style home. The antenna wasn't that high and was on a tripod. We were in the process of connecting it and had not connected the earth ground (lightning arrestor) when a storm started to brew (it was only grey clouds). We did get off the roof though and went into the house. It hadn't started to rain. The other end of the antenna cable was about 1-2 feet away from a 120VAC outlet. We sat there in his family room for a bit and all of sudden we started to see an arc from the antenna coaxial outlet to the 120VAC outlet. It happened a few times in the next 15-20 minutes. No rain outside; just very grey and only some lightning and thunder. The arcing to his 120VAC lines didn't cause any harm but there were really not too many "electronics" plugged in to his home at the time.
My sister had a tree hit by lightning about a week and a half ago. It was not a very large tree (less than 20 feet in height) and about 30 feet from the house. It didn't cause any electronic damage. The tree though had to be removed as the lightning split the tree in half.
In the 1970's I helped a friend install a CB antenna on the roof of his ranch style home. The antenna wasn't that high and was on a tripod. We were in the process of connecting it and had not connected the earth ground (lightning arrestor) when a storm started to brew (it was only grey clouds). We did get off the roof though and went into the house. It hadn't started to rain. The other end of the antenna cable was about 1-2 feet away from a 120VAC outlet. We sat there in his family room for a bit and all of sudden we started to see an arc from the antenna coaxial outlet to the 120VAC outlet. It happened a few times in the next 15-20 minutes. No rain outside; just very grey and only some lightning and thunder. The arcing to his 120VAC lines didn't cause any harm but there were really not too many "electronics" plugged in to his home at the time.
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