M1G Z-wave or UPB status feedback

[JonW]

... PCS switches have always been able to send status update info. The simplest way is set the Transmit Components to sent status updates back to the controller, the controller is then programmed to receive the links being broadcast. The status information includes light level and device sending the info. Status updates are then sent with every single or double tap along with rocker release.
You can also set up a condition in ELK when XYZ link is received, send query...
If you would like more info or an example video, drop me an email: [email protected]

I've bolded the key item here. UPB switches, whether HAI, PCS or SAI, have always been able to transmit their status. The problem comes in at the controller side as to whether it is programmed to deal with these status messages and track the switch states accordingly. HAI switches don't have any additional status tracking functionality over their PCS cousins. The way that HAI implemented the configuration and usage of links and status packets is what achieves the high level of integration and status tracking. In my own installation, I use PCS, HAI & SAI switches and they are all tracked equally - because I setup my links per the HAI prescribed method.

The bottom line is that the Elk controller needs to implement the status tracking to give you what you're looking for. I'm not familiar with Elk, so I can't say whether you can do that in user code or you need Elk to do it in firmware. One of my reasons for moving away from my previous HA controller to the OmniPro is that I was tired of maintaining UPB status tracking code. I wanted the controller to do it for me.

 

[comet48]

Elk is next to useless in keeping track of UPB status. It can turn UPB switches on and off, but it has no idea if you manually turn on or off a switch.There is also no confirmation of receipt, so you can't be sure if the switch received your command from the Elk.

 

[ddennerline]

The information I had related to link commands was from Elk documentation.

http://www.elkproducts.com/pdf/M1XSP_Light...al_Port_Exp.pdf

Limitations:
UPB modules will not send their recent status changes in response to link commands. Therefore, the status displayed by the. M1 Controller may not always match the true status of UPB devices if they have been controlled by a Link command.

It may be helpful to walk through a few quick uses cases with a configuration. I used the words zone and link interchangeable below. The basic premise below is that all controllers and slave must accurately mirror current system state regardless of how physical switch is toggled.

Equipment
2 or 4 Button Zone/Scene Controller with button one assigned to turn ON downstairs lights (ZNCTRL)
RS-232 Lighting Interface Module (secondary lighting controller)
Light switch in kitchen (downstairs)
Elk Remote Keypad (ERKPD)
We are going to assume that all downstairs lights were on prior to test.

Startup Elk
The ERKPD software should have a 100% correct status after reaching quiescence. This is currently a problem with my Z-Wave setup. After a reboot, I have to sometimes walk around toggling lights until the ERKPD status has worked itself out.

I have noticed that the more lights that are turned on before the reboot, the higher the probability that synchronization issues appear.

There’s a belief that polling is expensive and difficult for the M1XSP to implement. In a perfect world, a Leviton Vizia+ configuration would not require polling if physical link was 100% reliable. My experience has been otherwise. Once in a blue moon, the outside lights do not turn on. When I check ERKPD, the light’s status indicates ON.

Physically turn off kitchen light
The ERKPD status should be updated to OFF. The status light on the ZNCTRL should be ON because not every load linked to zone is on. If ZNCTRL button light indicates the collective status of every light in zone. This works correctly now with Z-Wave. A Z-Wave switch can be associated with up to five ZNCTRL buttons. For every light that is tied to a zone controller, the ZNCTRL button’s status must be updated.

Turn ON all downstairs lights
After ZNCTRL downstairs button is pushed, its status light should be OFF. The ERKPD must mirror the current status of each light. Each light defined for the zone must be also turned off. If for some reason, one light is missed due to sporadic communication problem. Then both the zone light and ERKPD must reflect this failure. In other words, if 3 out of 64 lights fail to turn on, then ERKPD must not indicate the 64 lights are on. I have not tested this use case yet in Vizia+ because I have not yet installed four button controllers.

Turn OFF kitchen light from ERKPD
After the Elk rule turns off the kitchen light, the kitchen light should be OFF. The ZNCTRL status light should be ON because at least one light in the zone is OFF.

Turn ON all kitchen lights from ERKPD
After the Elk rule triggers a zone/link command, all kitchen lights should be turned off. The ERKPD status for each lights associated with zone should be off too. In addition, the ZNCTRL kitchen lights status button should be OFF (the status light is a little difficult to follow ) This case should work with Vizia+ and Elk, but there's a defect in the M1XSP firmware.

 

[tpz507]

Thanks to all for participating and sharing your experience.

Would it be possible to create a suggested shopping list in order to make the M1G to controll lights accurately? Just suggetions, any idea is good.

Thanks for your help.

TP

 

[tpz507]

Hello to all,

What about the HAI with the omniPro, would this be possible?. Any ideas?

Tp

 

[JonW]

Hello to all,

What about the HAI with the omniPro, would this be possible?. Any ideas?

Tp

Are you referring to the status tracking being possible? Yes, the HAI Omni line does this extremely well. In addition to using the HAI UPB modules, you can also use ones from PCS, Simply Automated & Web Mountain.

One of the reasons I switched from my old home automation controller to the HAI OmniPro II was to get accurate status tracking.

As for the locks, HAI can do that via ZWave as well. Since the HAI has 5 serial ports, you only need one for UPB and you can do ZWave on another. I will be adding the Kwikset locks with ZWave to my system at some point, but they will be the only ZWave items I use.

 

[tpz507]

Elk is putting all their development effort into their new system. They aren't doing much with the M1(G), as can be seen from the small number of new functions added over the last 18 months.

Thanks Comet for your input, but do you have any idea of which new products you are talking about. Should I wait some time before I buy?

Cheers,

T

Elk is normally real quiet about new products except when Spanky chooses to drop us a hint or two.

It will be very nice if Spanky could drop some lines and give us some light at the end of the road. How can we get in touch with him?. I really like ELK platform but checking HAI omnipro platform is not that bad, just expensive, but apparently it does works very well with UPB. Spanky if you are there listening, would M1G overcome those UPB status issues???.

Cheers,

T.

 

[tpz507]

Come on guys!, drop some lines, Im sure many of us would like to know if this issue is going to be solved. I believe that MG1 is a wonderfull product, I would buy it without thinking if the upb feedback wasn't a problem. It has many many good features but IMHO, I think that knowing the status of the devices is critical for HA, otherwise you would need extra help from other products, but that often means extra $$$$.

If someone out there knows something, please, give us some light at the end of the tunnel.

Cheers,

T

 

[Digger]

I highly doubt ELK is ignoring your request I just dont think they are here to see it. Most times the ELK staff was here on their own time and not company time and that may be very limited lately.

Why not give them a call next week and just ask. I have always found them to be extremely helpful and I would guess others feel the same.

If you do call would you mind posting the answer? I have actually meant to call myself on this one but it always seems that once I get to work and involved in something I never get to it.

 

[michelkenny]

Yes please let us know if you find out. I have just purchased an Elk M1 and trying to decide on a automated lighting product. I'll be kicking myself if I find that a new product from Elk is going to be released soon...

 

[Digger]

Todays announcement answers when (early August). I will try and jump in and get one of the first units as I have many customers who would love to have their UPB lighting in synch with the M1. Hopefully the product will give us what we want. Since it sits on the 4 wire buss I would imagine it is flashable which is a huge plus.

Powerline Control Systems, Inc. and ELK Products Inc. Create Strategic Alliance

This partnership will develop, manufacture and market an ELKM1 Bus specific UPB Powerline Interface.

Northridge, CA (July 27, 2010) - PCS (Powerline Control Systems, Inc.), the inventor of UPB® technology, and ELK Products, Inc announced a strategic business alliance that will combine PCS' UPB technology and the ELK M1 Control Data Bus protocol into one interface device. This partnership would provide users of the ELKM1 and EZ8 control panels the ability to effortlessly control PulseWorx devices into system installations directly without the need of adding a Serial Port Expander and field wiring. The ELKM1PIM and PIM-E will be fully interoperable with other UPB enabled devices.
PIM-E / ELKM1PCSPIMKPCD-6


ELK and PCS currently share many customers in the Home Automation and Security industry. The new association between the two companies will offer system integrators of ELK and PCS more design flexibility and provide users more capability and ease of use at a lower cost.



"ELK is exactly the kind of company we're looking to work with," adds Scott Klodowski, Director of Sales and Marketing, Powerline Control Systems. "Alliances like these make both companies stronger and we can both benefit from that strength and pass it on to our customers."


The new partnership will allow many PulseWorx products to connect directly on the ELK network and provide a seamless control interface, as well as allowing virtually unlimited system feature expansion over the electrical wiring.

"We have partnered on many projects with PCS and I believe this alliance is a perfect extension of that relationship" said Todd Hudson Director of Sales and Marketing, ELK Products, Inc.

This interface device will be available in early August through both PCS and ELK Products. The PulseWorx product line is sold through a network of distributors, certified integrators and authorized dealers. For more information, visit http://www.pulseworx.com/Order_PCS_.htm, email [email protected] or call 888.701.9831. ELK Products are sold through trade, retail and international distributors. For a complete listing, visit www.elkproducts.com/distlist.htm or call (800) 797-9355.

 

[tpz507]

Todays announcement answers when (early August). I will try and jump in and get one of the first units as I have many customers who would love to have their UPB lighting in synch with the M1. Hopefully the product will give us what we want. Since it sits on the 4 wire buss I would imagine it is flashable which is a huge plus.

Powerline Control Systems, Inc. and ELK Products Inc. Create Strategic Alliance

This partnership will develop, manufacture and market an ELKM1 Bus specific UPB Powerline Interface.

Northridge, CA (July 27, 2010) - PCS (Powerline Control Systems, Inc.), the inventor of UPB® technology, and ELK Products, Inc announced a strategic business alliance that will combine PCS' UPB technology and the ELK M1 Control Data Bus protocol into one interface device. This partnership would provide users of the ELKM1 and EZ8 control panels the ability to effortlessly control PulseWorx devices into system installations directly without the need of adding a Serial Port Expander and field wiring. The ELKM1PIM and PIM-E will be fully interoperable with other UPB enabled devices.
PIM-E / ELKM1PCSPIMKPCD-6


ELK and PCS currently share many customers in the Home Automation and Security industry. The new association between the two companies will offer system integrators of ELK and PCS more design flexibility and provide users more capability and ease of use at a lower cost.



"ELK is exactly the kind of company we're looking to work with," adds Scott Klodowski, Director of Sales and Marketing, Powerline Control Systems. "Alliances like these make both companies stronger and we can both benefit from that strength and pass it on to our customers."


The new partnership will allow many PulseWorx products to connect directly on the ELK network and provide a seamless control interface, as well as allowing virtually unlimited system feature expansion over the electrical wiring.

"We have partnered on many projects with PCS and I believe this alliance is a perfect extension of that relationship" said Todd Hudson Director of Sales and Marketing, ELK Products, Inc.

This interface device will be available in early August through both PCS and ELK Products. The PulseWorx product line is sold through a network of distributors, certified integrators and authorized dealers. For more information, visit http://www.pulseworx.com/Order_PCS_.htm, email [email protected] or call 888.701.9831. ELK Products are sold through trade, retail and international distributors. For a complete listing, visit www.elkproducts.com/distlist.htm or call (800) 797-9355.

Hi Digger and to all, I 've been offline for quite some time and I'm very glad to hear this announcement. This are great news for all of us. My waiting time for getting my M1G is over!!!!!. If this solves the feedback issues with UPB. M1G is IMHO the best bang for the bug out there for HA, I really like the product, I was just thinking twice because of this UPB issue. My next quest will be finding a distribuitor that has it.!

I think that for now there is no need to call them because I think that this solves the UPB issue. (Digger) Do you mind sharing with us your experience as soon as you get the PIM? plus I always forget to call minding work stuff and family.

Cheers to all , keep up the good diy HA.

T

 

[Digger]

As soon as it is for sale I will consider buying it immediately if they actually have some information as to what its capabilities are. If it can indeed give true up to date status for the ELK M1 I will buy it for my home and a few homes where I have installed ELK systems.

 

[etc6849]

Anyone use the VRC0P with the M1G? I'm curious to know how the biderictional status works? Sorry for the question, I don't have access to the dealer site (until I purchase an M1G) to see the details of using the M1XSP and the VRC0P together. My understanding is that I would have to flash the firmware of an M1XSP so that it can talk to the VRC0P correctly...

Can't remember where I read it, but the m1g can get lighting status if you use the leviton serial interface controller (VRC0P-1LW) through the elk serial expander (m1xsp) rather than using the elk z-wave interface. edit: the leviton controller will soon be compatible with the zwave locks... follow it here:

http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php...&hl=schlage

 

[jlegault]

Has anyone had a chance to get the new ELK-M1PCSPIM working? Is the device status reflected in ELK programming and state? If this is as good as I think it could be, I may start the transition away from zwave and homeseer to UPB.