MainLobby Pricing & License Discussion

[jwilson56]

David I just read that the UI changes to MusicLobby are for a future upgrade and not part of the current upgrade. So that looks like I would still not be able to add buttons to control all my zones on the current MusicLobby screen.

From what I have read many people are not too happy to have to pay $120 upgrades and get very little improvements for MusicLobby3 (need to upgrade to ML3 as part of it).

John

 

[mcascio]

Actually, one of the new features in MusicLobby 3 is the ability to create your own buttons for transport controls of any networked J River Media Center. Users can send commands like this attached to any button or imported image:
MLServeCMD.MLMediaCenter|servername~1~Play

So yes - you can add buttons to control all Zones.

"Many" people is actually only one person. Which baffles me since he was a beta tester and wasn't complaining about the feature set until now - days from release. I guess we'll need to be more selective of our beta group.

The MusicLobby 3 uprade will be $19.99 - not $120. The upgrade to ML3 / MLS3 is $99.99. If you only use Cinemar software for MusicLobby - then yes you would need to upgrade your core products. Pretty standard in the industry. Many windows application will not run on Windows98 or older Operating Systems.

It would cost you quite a bit more if you were using a competitor software to just run/control J River. ... how's almost $900 sound!

 

[IVB]

It would cost you quite a bit more if you were using a competitor software to just run/control J River. ... how's almost $900 sound!

What software would that be?

I know it isn't CQC, cuz you'd only need the core product for that, which is $495. And, if you were using a Russound CAV to accomplish the playback, the price would shoot up to...$495. If you wanted to use CQC to accomplish playback on 7 touchpanels around the house, that would make it...$495. Got a yamaha receiver for one of those zones as it's a home theater? Ok, that's $495.

So please, tell us all: What is this competing that you're talking about?

 

[mcascio]

Thought their package went up to $895. My bad.

Regardless, still much less expensive for only a Music user who doesn't care about controlling external hardware.

Our ala carte system allows us to cater to both DIYers and Dealers at a price point they find extremely affordable. Our decision to charge for some plugins and drivers was an intelligent one that will keep us in business for years to come. New hardware is constantly coming out which requires large amounts of programming resources and inevitably costs Cinemar time and money. I think most users want a company that is profitable and will be around for years to come. Not such a crazy strategy. Users only pay for what they need. Pricing any other way will keep a company at a Mom and Pop level...certainly not our strategy.

 

[IVB]

Yes, i'll give you that. For the people that are interested in controlling only JRMC through 1-4 PCs, and not controlling anything else, nor using a PPC, nor will ever grow their system to control anything else, then that's all they'll have to pay. I'm sure there must be at least 5 people in the US alone that have such severely focused goals for their HA/HT system. Why they're not just using JRMC alone is beyond me, but whatever.

However, for the rest of us, the cost comparison is slightly different.

 

[mcascio]

Ahhh...IVB.

The difference is that there are more than 5 people. :angry: Our years of sales figures pretty much tell the story. Remember you are into home automation. Not everyone else is. Likewise with DVDLobby, we have users that their only goal is to control their movie collection. They don't care about the rest. Again, there are more than 5 people. Cinemar's first program was DVDLobby. If your numbers were true, we would have gone out of business 5 years ago.

I digress. I'm not here to provide helpful information on our strategy and why we have the business plan we do and why its successful. All I can say is that its working. I know your a strong opponent of Cinemar so I'll just leave it at that. Our prices are all public so there's no mystery about pricing.

 

[IVB]

I'm not an opponent of anyone (Ripper has that job)- remember, i'm user #375 on your forums, i tried it every 3-6 months from 12/03 on.

My reaction is entirely to these random sideswipe comments I keep seeing you & DavidL make about CQC in various forums. I don't recall a single instance of Dean drawing first blood, however Cinemar doesn't seem to have an issue with that.

Unprovoked attacks is what I'm an opponent of.

 

[mcascio]

IVB, I barely have time to post on all the forums let alone sideswipe - let me know if I have. But I doubt you'd ever find one by me. My response was merely defending Cinemar based on what I have been reading on this forum. I've been bleeding for years iwthout ever putting a bandaid on. :angry:

 

[Ripper99]

I'm not an opponent of anyone (Ripper has that job)- remember, i'm user #375 on your forums, i tried it every 3-6 months from 12/03 on.

My reaction is entirely to these random sideswipe comments I keep seeing you & DavidL make about CQC in various forums. I don't recall a single instance of Dean drawing first blood, however Cinemar doesn't seem to have an issue with that.

Unprovoked attacks is what I'm an opponent of.

I'm not an opponent just someone that tried the product for 6 months and realized both the company and product were something I'd rather not deal with, I can only hear the words "Coming Soon" for so long before I realize someones blowing hot air.

As for the sideswipe comments against CQC..I would have to say Mario is not to blame for these and it is DavidL that usually throws fuel on the fire with comments that are usually far from accurate at which point I feel I should correct him and let others know the *real* facts.

Our decision to charge for some plugins and drivers was an intelligent one that will keep us in business for years to come.

I've said this before Mario but this was one of the reasons I left your product...nickel and diming for drivers that were once free like the Russound driver made me look elswhere for a product that gave this driver for free.

The day you removed the link to the free driver and started charging everybody for a new driver was the day I decided to start looking elsewhere, regardless of the new features I'm sure you will mention... the old *FREE* driver worked fine with my system and many others as posts on your forum will show and your decision to start nickel and diming everything may make you money now but I wouldn't be so sure of that in the future when competing products offer hundreds of drivers of the same or better quality for free.

Reselling TV network graphics and XM channel logos is another example of nickel and diming...while I agree these graphics do take time for you to add the XM graphics from xmradio.com or lyngsat.com toa simple white button background I *really wonder* if you have paid royaltys to *all* these channels/companies to resell their copyrighted logos..its one thing to give them away but yet quite another to resell copyrighted logos...I make the same quality logos and give them away for *FREE* this way I will never have to worry about lawsuits for making profit off copyrighted logos.

**I would find it extremely hard to believe you have permission to resell all logos with your product.

 

[mcascio]

See my post above of why we are charging for some plugin/drivers.

Our decision to charge for some plugins and drivers was an intelligent one that will keep us in business for years to come. New hardware is constantly coming out which requires large amounts of programming resources and inevitably costs Cinemar time and money. I think most users want a company that is profitable and will be around for years to come. Not such a crazy strategy. Users only pay for what they need. Pricing any other way will keep a company at a Mom and Pop level...certainly not our strategy.

Unfortunately Ripper - you happened to jump ship just before the onslaught of releases gearing up to MLServer 3.

We're rolling out things left and right - with updates occuring daily on at least something. Just check out the # of releases to MainLobby alone not counting to other plugins/drivers:


======================================
Release Notes for 3.00.19 on 08/09/06
======================================
Added
• Library Object: 0019_0075 (Meter)

BugFix
• MainLobby wasn't trying to reconnect to MLServer after loading a scene after the default startup scene



======================================
Release Notes for 08/07/06 Updates
======================================
Added
• 0019_0072 (Decora Switch Top)
• 0019_0073 (Decora Switch Bottom)
• 0019_0080
• 0019_0081
• 0019_0082
• 0019_0083
• 0019_0084
• 0019_0085
• 0019_0086

Changes
• Updated Scene: 0019_insteon.mls



===============================================
Release Notes for 08/06/06 - No Version Change to MainLobby
===============================================
Changes
• Updated Scene: 0019_cable.mls
• JPGLoaderTimed01Second - improved reloading for Panasonic IP Cameras

Added
• Scene: 0019_insteon.mls
• 0019_0069
• 0019_0070
• 0019_0071
• 0019_0100 Displays Live Video from Capture Card 1
• 0019_0101 Displays Live Video from Capture Card 2
• 0019_0102 Displays Live Video from Capture Card 3
• 0019_0103 Displays Live Video from Capture Card 4
• 0019_0104 Displays Live Video from Capture Card 5
• 0019_0105 Displays Live Video from Capture Card 6



===============================================
Release Notes for 3.00.18 on 08/05/06
===============================================
BugFixes
• Library Object Not Found would appear when coming from a Scene with no Buttons



===============================================
Release Notes for 08/04/06
===============================================
Changes
• Updated Scene: 0019_callerID.mls
• Updated Scene: 0019_weather.mls
• Updated Scene: 0019_nav_media.mls

Added
• Scene: 0019_weather.02.mls
• Library Object: 0017_0050 (Russound Keypad)




===============================================
Release Notes for 3.00.17on 08/03/06
===============================================
Changes
• Minor Enhancements for future Trial Users.
• Updated Scene: 0019_media.mixer.mls
• Updated Scene: 0019_weather.mls

Bug Fixes
The following items would stop working after loading the same scene twice
• Time.HourMinutes
• Time.AMPM
• Date.Date
• Date.DayMonthDateYear
• Date.MonthDate
• Date.MonthDateYear
• Date.Year



===============================================
Release Notes for 3.00.16 on 07/26/06
===============================================
Bug Fixes
• MLServeCmd.MLCmd|MLCommand~myClient1~Application|maximize wasn't working
• Monitor.TurnOn and Monitor.TurnOff was not working

Added
• Modified MLCmd dropdown to include more commands


===============================================
Release Notes for 3.00.14 on 07/16/06
===============================================
Bug Fixes
• When switching to scenes with no background skin, the prior scene bkgd skin was still showing up
• Attempting Client>Server ping to prevent clients from not disconnecting (mlserverconnect.swf - version 3.04)
• Ping feature requires MLServer 3.0.52 or higher

Added
• Library0019: 0019_0300 [Progress Bar - requires 0 - 100 value]
• Library0019: 0019_0301 [Progress Bar with Time Code Display - requires two variables in label field separated by a ~]
• ie: {{mldevicemanager_media_percent_done_001}}~{{mldevicemanager_current_mediatime_0
01}} (will not work with
• First value represents a percentage and must equal 0 - 100
• Second value can be any label but was designed for a timecode display (01:52:31)



===============================================
Release Notes for 3.00.13 on 07/12/06
===============================================
Bug Fixes
• Resolve some systems problem of saving out "0" byte files
• When Opening some scenes, all locked graphics would become unlocked.



===============================================
Release Notes for 3.00.11 on 07/10/06
===============================================
IMPORTANT: This update requires MLServer 3.0.25 or higher
Bug Fixes
• When changing a graphic through Library List box then moving button using arrow keys, object would cycle through Library objects instead of Moving
• When Opening a Scene while in Design Mode, any objects that were programmed to be nonclickable could not be selected without pressing DESIGN first


===============================================
Release Notes for 3.00.10 on 07/06/06
===============================================
IMPORTANT: This update requires MLServer 3.0.25 or higher

Added
• Font: Tahoma
• Library Object: 000_0031

Changes
• Updated 0019_media.mls
• Updated 0019_security.mls
• Updated 0019_media.movies.mls

Bug Fixes
• Display Options had incorrect 840x480 display reading instead of 800x480


===============================================
Release Notes for 3.00.9 on 06/14/06
===============================================
IMPORTANT: This update requires MLServer 3.0.25 or higher

Changes
• Associated MLS files with MainLobby again

Added
• Skins > Windowsbkgd_1024x600.jpg



===============================================
Release Notes for 3.00.8 on 06/14/06
===============================================
IMPORTANT: This update requires MLServer 3.0.25 or higher

Added
• Options > Display 800x480 Button
• Skins > 0019_0001_01.jpg

Changes to Library0019
• 0019_0002 (extended to fit 1280 width)
• 0019_0013 (extended to fit 1280 width)
• 0019_0014 (extended to fit 1280 width)
• 0019_0023 (extended to fit 1280 width)
• 0019_0023 (extended to fit 1280 width)
• 0019_0009 (enlarged click area)


===============================================
Release Notes for 3.00.7 on 06/11/06
===============================================
IMPORTANT: This update requires MLServer 3.0.25 or higher

Added
• Added MLCmds: (Case Sensitive)
• Can be called from an MLServeCmd of another computer: MLServeCmd.MLCmd|MLCommand~clientname~Application|Move~20~20
• Application|Move~x~y (where x and y are coordinates)
• Application|Shift~x~y (where x and y are relative coordinates - see Options > Display. For a 1024x768 display, -80 is absolute 0)
• IMPORTANT NOTE: The entire designer main menu will move with these commands. Make sure you have saved your scene before using



===============================================
Release Notes for 3.00.6 on 06/08/06
===============================================
IMPORTANT: This update requires MLServer 3.0.25 or higher

Added
• Passes MainLobby Version number into MLServer Client Window
• URLEncoding is now being used when communicating between MLServer and MainLobby to support displaying unique characters from MLServer Variables
• MLServerConnect Version Number is viewable on OPTIONS > STARTUP panel (only displays after MLServerConnect version 3.01)

BugFixes
• Text.Multiline wasn't updating
• Text.Multiline wasn't tinting
• Text.Multiline wasn't supporting <br> in MlServer Variables



===============================================
Release Notes for 3.00.5 on 05/28/06
===============================================
BugFixes
• Keyboard Shortcuts were not working in Overlays

 

[Ripper99]

Okay now show me the release list from June 2005 until February 2006..the time I used the product, you had no updates at all to the core product...lotsa fluff but no filler.

Who can say I wasn't wise for jumping ship after almost 8 months and the core products were not updated even once.

BTW what about them logos and copyrights? I consult for many of those companies whose logo's you resell and I am aware of the usage restrictions...I'm surprised you haven't consulted your lawyer about the legal ramifications of re-selling those logos for as long as you have without paying royalties.

It's one thing to offer them for free but re-selling them is a no-no...FOX alone would *never* approve of you reselling or re-using any of their logos, if you would like a legal explanation of this from Fox directly I can provide it for you to read and ponder...CNN logo also cannot be resold or bundled with a product.

I can provide you outlines on this also as well as hundreds of others I see are included in your collection...means nothing really to me but you should be concerned if you have been selling them for years and have not received prior permission to sell them and I know for fact many you do not have permssion to re-use-resell under any circumstances and if by some slim chance you are given approval the fee you need to pay would make it unrealistic to sell them.

 

[mcascio]

Like I said Ripper - you jumped ship too early.

Why do you think there's an onslaught of releases and new plugins? Do you think we took off for 8 months and then knocked all this stuff out in a matter of a month?

Many of the updates relied on MLServer 3...ahhh.

Been over this with you before...not gonna waste any more time on this with you.

Wish you the best. I'm going to have to change my tag to, "I'd rather be developing than posting this message."

 

[Ripper99]

Wish you the best. I'm going to have to change my tag to, "I'd rather be developing than posting this message."

I'll change mine to, "I'd rather be giving away free logos than worrying about potential lawsuits"

 

[jwilson56]

Actually, one of the new features in MusicLobby 3 is the ability to create your own buttons for transport controls of any networked J River Media Center. Users can send commands like this attached to any button or imported image:
MLServeCMD.MLMediaCenter|servername~1~Play

So yes - you can add buttons to control all Zones.

"Many" people is actually only one person. Which baffles me since he was a beta tester and wasn't complaining about the feature set until now - days from release. I guess we'll need to be more selective of our beta group.

The MusicLobby 3 uprade will be $19.99 - not $120. The upgrade to ML3 / MLS3 is $99.99. If you only use Cinemar software for MusicLobby - then yes you would need to upgrade your core products. Pretty standard in the industry. Many windows application will not run on Windows98 or older Operating Systems.

It would cost you quite a bit more if you were using a competitor software to just run/control J River. ... how's almost $900 sound!

Can I create any number of buttons to send commands to Homeseer from a MusicLobby screen?

John

 

[mcascio]

Sure John.

What did you have in mind?