Medium-size UPB Installation Experience

hmmm, interesting thought... what if the phase coupler were somehow bad? You might want to pull it out and see what happens. I've never used the SAI couplers which I believe can also bridge X10. I've only got experience with the PCS wire-in coupler. I do know that placing this device in the same box as my ACS active X10 bridge caused the ACS device to behave unpredictably.
 
kwilcox said:
@brothers:

your statement is true, but that doesn't negate the need for the wireless component in the protocol. As an X10 user with boosterlincs I can tell you that it is needed. The problem with boosterlincs is that they must see some level of signal on the circuit before they can repeat it. If a signal sucker exists between the boosterlinc and that switchbox where the circuit terminates then the boosterlinc won't see signal and the rest of the circuit consequently won't work.
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Currently, the main purpose of the wireless side of Insteon is phase bridging. It has some serendipitous applications in bridging into otherwise isolated circuits, but until we see wireless Insteon controllers and similar devices, it won't really come into its own (IMO).

As far as the BoosterLinc issue, remember that _every_ device is repeating - the chances of the signal dropping below the receivability threshold are pretty low (and note that some of the traditionally worst signal-suckers - two-way PLC devices - are themselves repeating).

- Dennis
 
The home is a beachfront condo, and it has its own panel--but that may actually be a [very large] sub-panel to another one.
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Have you checked that the panel inside the condo is 120/240 and not 120/208? Sometimes apartments and condos have a 120/208 three phase service that feeds the meter pack or main disconnect. Then each dwelling unit will use two of the three phases from that service. Sorry if this is already obvious to everyone, but maybe it got missed.

Hope this helps,
Kenny
 
Kenny--that's great thinking. What would be the effect of this? How would one have to wire the system if that is the case?

I doubt it's a three-phase system, since the system was talking perfectly well before the phase coupler was installed. But I'm not an electrician by trade, so anything is possible.

Chris
 
Here is a link to a PDF file the PCS lighting website that talks about the communication of UPB on single and three phase power systems. Pages 6-9 have most of the details.
UPB Description V1.2

It would be interesting to take noise/signal strength readings using a powerline interface module with your coupler installed and with it removed to see if there was any difference.

Hope this helps,
Kenny
 
Yikes! That could be it! If you have 120/208 then the phase coupler wouldn't work properly and would, in fact, place UPB pulses on the wrong point of the 60HZ sine wave for the bridged phase. Three phase signals are 120 degrees apart not 180. Split single phase is simply 240 volt single phase that's been center tapped for two 120V legs. It is my understanding that UPB has major problems with 3 phase systems due to the precise timing of the UPB pulses on a certain section of the 60hz sine wave. Heck, it may even fry switches if they sense a pulse when the voltage is > 50V.

I'd pull the coupler immediately to see what effect it has.
 
kwilcox, all: again, thank you. I will pass all of this wisdom onto the installer.

I did receive a few e-mails from Simply Automated today. I'll share what we learned (even before we get back to the home); hopefully, this will help in UPB installations:

1. Installers/electricians must make sure that loads are balanced between the phases to cancel current in the neutral wires.
2. When there is no neutral in a switchbox, a few things can be done:
a. A fixture module can be installed which communicates with the switch, and the fixture module can pass the neutral back to the switch.
b. Although it's not recommended, neutral wires can/may be able to be wired to ground since that's where the power goes anyway.

Also, apparently high-end audio equipment should be on a dedicated circuit with dedicated grounds going back to the panel/mains (vs. sharing a ground with the rest of the home). Apparently, electricians take care of this in new installs, but it can become problematic in retrofits.

Here are 3 URLs which discuss grounding issues for audio systems; I haven't checked them out yet, but they were recommended by the manufacturer:
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/...loopcableTV.php
http://www.allenavionics.com/VHumElim/SGL.htm
http://www.epanorama.net/documents/groundloop/

I'm thinking we might have SA go out with the electricians and the installer before the rest of us can make it back to the home--and see if we can get a diagnosis before then. I'm hoping that the feedback from this experience helps make all smart home products out there "auto-deal" with a lot of these issues.

If anyone thinks of anything else that can be going on, or notices anything in the text at those URLs that might pertain, please let me know. I'm trying to relay all of this to the installer to see if we can make this work.

Thanks!

Chris
 
I have the serial PIM and 2 US 2-40 switches on the same circuit. I installed them this last weekend. One switch was bad and would not communicate. The other switch would communicate but UPstart crashed multiple times. So chris is not alone in his problems with UPB. I hope to have much better results when I get my replacement switch.
 
Bruce L said:
I have the serial PIM and 2 US 2-40 switches on the same circuit. I installed them this last weekend. One switch was bad and would not communicate. The other switch would communicate but UPstart crashed multiple times. So chris is not alone in his problems with UPB. I hope to have much better results when I get my replacement switch.
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[wiping sweat off brow] :p

I'm sad to see that others are having troubles too, but glad I'm not in some alternate universe. -- Chris
 
I'm using an older version of UPStart (I think)... version 4.1 Build 92. I've never had a crash with it, let me know if you need me to send it to you. Unfortunately, I can't send it until tomorrow when I get home.
 
Those US2-40 switches could also be at the bottom of this. Being new switches and all and now here's another poster, BruceL, with the exact same switches reporting similar problems.. I've got the most current UPStart myself and have never had a crash but I only use US11's
 
Guys, is a phase coupler really required for UPB as well? I somehow thought they wouldn't be due to a better signal. My house is around 3000 sq ft with regular 2 phase power. It has underground utilities but the transformer is between me and my neighbor. I had like .05v signal on x10 so I put in Signalinc Coupler/repeater on dryer outlet and that got signal to around 1-1.25v and things seem better. But now I have a UPB switch that is very inconsistent as well. Weird because I remember when I put it in with UPStart is said signal was excellent? Ya think I'm gonna need the UPB coupler as well? This new hobby is killin me. :p
 
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