Medium-size UPB Installation Experience
- Thread starter ChrisWalker
- Start date
ChrisWalker
Active Member
Simply Automated indicates that a phase coupler _should_ be installed in every installation.Steve said:
BTW, (for kwilcox), I do agree that maybe these issues are related to this new generation of switches. The concept behind them is really cool, though, for sure--but this issue is pretty critical since the previous generation of universal switches have been discontinued.
Chris
ChrisWalker
Active Member
kwilcox,kwilcox said:
Yes, they are cool
And the LED is _way_ brighter than the old ones, so you can actually see it.Actually, the reason the dealer is using the new US2-40 is four-fold:
1. The new US2-40 switches are, as Simply Automated says, the best switches they've ever made. He's looking to use the most reliable and capably setup possible.
2. The US2-40 switches have rounded edges and thus fit into his j-boxes. The electricians actually had to file down or clip some of the boxes a tiny bit to get the "less deep" slaves in there. In this retrofit, he doesn't have a ton of room.
3. The new US2-40 switch can be set up to control any load from its rocker--even another one instead of itself (while at the same time still letting another switch turn its load on and off even if it doesn't provide a "direct touch" way).
4. The US11-30 switch is going to be discontinued at some point, and the dealer wants to make sure he can add nodes for a year or so and still have them match. Of course, this is a bit of a problem already because the slave switches are still "first generation", so they have the dimmer green LED--but at least they're not red/green. In all reality, he did use one US11-30 from his demo kit, for the electronic fireplace, because he thought that red would be cool for "fire" and would distinguish it from the adjacent light switch.
Chris
Steve
Senior Member
Chris,
Have you found any issues with PLC noise besides the audio system? I determined this weekend x10 is definitely not going to work for me at all so I started doing a large amount of testing signal and noise with UPStart. Everything was looking pretty good until the wife turned on the electric cook top and bam, the signal went to hell and noise became severe. Some commands still managed to get through but many were trashed. Have you seen anything like this that put a ton of noise on the line? I need to try to find some sort of filter for the thing. Per SAI's recommendation I contacted the manufacturer. I suspect we're going to need to see UPB filters in several installs.
Have you found any issues with PLC noise besides the audio system? I determined this weekend x10 is definitely not going to work for me at all so I started doing a large amount of testing signal and noise with UPStart. Everything was looking pretty good until the wife turned on the electric cook top and bam, the signal went to hell and noise became severe. Some commands still managed to get through but many were trashed. Have you seen anything like this that put a ton of noise on the line? I need to try to find some sort of filter for the thing. Per SAI's recommendation I contacted the manufacturer. I suspect we're going to need to see UPB filters in several installs.
ChrisWalker
Active Member
Steve,
Who makes UPB filters? I haven't seen those--but that's a completely different issue that needs to be addressed for sure. Much like how you are supposed to put DSL filters on non-DSL devices in homes.
We haven't even tested turning on devices in the home; we need to get the switches working without the noise first
Chris
Who makes UPB filters? I haven't seen those--but that's a completely different issue that needs to be addressed for sure. Much like how you are supposed to put DSL filters on non-DSL devices in homes.
We haven't even tested turning on devices in the home; we need to get the switches working without the noise first
Chris
Steve
Senior Member
Nobody that I have found. SAI responded that they haven't found many devices that cause that much noise so they haven't built any. They wanted to know the manufacturer. They said sometimes the manufacturer has a filter.
I'm sure it depends on the model. When we redid the kitchen we splurged on the cook top and got a Dacor with fancy schmancy controls (MET304). I'm guessing the electronics behind the controls it what's causing the problems. I guess my only hope is that someone builds a 220V 40A filter that blocks out UPB freq. I'm praying Dacor has a good answer for me. Heck, with the amount that stupid thing cost, they should build me a filter! I suspect though that since UPB is typically put in 'high end' homes by pros (due to cost) and I'm guessing a lot of these homes have high end appliances, etc, then we will start to see more problems and eventually filters. I just happen to be the poor (broke) guy who can't use x10 and happen to have a few high end appliances (that are still financed).
I tested both my electric oven and rangetop, and didn't see any change in noise or signal level. Mine is not fancy... but no change noticed (for what it's worth)
One cool feature I learned today (due to stupid mistake by me). I had somehow deleted my UPB file. Upstart started out empty and I was pissed! time to start over reconstructing my network. However, I put in the network name/password - and it went out and recreated the entire system. Very cool!
One cool feature I learned today (due to stupid mistake by me). I had somehow deleted my UPB file. Upstart started out empty and I was pissed! time to start over reconstructing my network. However, I put in the network name/password - and it went out and recreated the entire system. Very cool!
kwilcox
Active Member
yeah, all UPB switches store their configuration, so when UPStart enumerates the network at startup, it simply recreates the database from the switch configs themselves.
re: UPB noise filters
In order to create "noise" that interfers with a UPB signal, a device has to actively spike the 60hz sine wave at around 40V. It's very interesting to hear that a device such as a cooktop can actually do this. Since this is a 240V appliance, I'm wondering it there isn't some sort of phase coupling occuring instead when the cooktop is operational which somehow affects the UPB pulses.
re: UPB noise filters
In order to create "noise" that interfers with a UPB signal, a device has to actively spike the 60hz sine wave at around 40V. It's very interesting to hear that a device such as a cooktop can actually do this. Since this is a 240V appliance, I'm wondering it there isn't some sort of phase coupling occuring instead when the cooktop is operational which somehow affects the UPB pulses.
