Actually, we've asked for it numerous times, and have been ignored. Then at some point they told us that the SDK forum is only for 3rd party developers to interact with each other and absolutely not for communicating with Smarthome. And we're told that if we need to talk to someone at Smarthome, we have to get out our credit cards and call them to open a support ticket that we have to pay for. Any developer on the planet will find that extremely offensive and frustrating. At the very least, it's a conflict of interest, especially when you have already charged developers $200 for the SDK which is largely inaccurate, out-of-date, and has huge, gaping holes in the documentation. As a matter of fact, if you read the description of the Insteon SDK on the Smarthome website, you will see that it is riddled with false advertising. No joke. They make claims in the product page that are absolutely not true.
More INSTEON quality control issues!
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Lagerhead
Active Member
Dan, kudos on remaining level-headed and calling for civility and open-mindedness. (Ken, Digger please don't be hasty.)
Second, in my business (corporate-type) we would *kill* for the kind of market intelligence that this thead holds. CT represents the best and brightest customers, the kind of customers with whom a constructive relationship will almost naturally drive to market success. This is the very essence of the "Web 2.0" idea. There should be *no question* of the value of engaging this community in dialog, and *no hesitation* in doing so. Even the negative dialog can be beneficial. Maybe especially the negative. But you have to participate to get the benefit.
This statement is baffling, for at least two reasons. First, it is well-known that dissatisfied customers can be poison. From a business standpoint you just have to address it and nip it in the bud whenever and wherever you can. Knowing that critical discussion is taking place ought to be a call to action to understand and address the issues under discussion. The attitudes expressed here are understandable to a certain degree given the silence and the distance of SH. This is an *opportunity* and nothing less. What kind of business thinking puts "being upset" ahead of "getting engaged?" How many businesses have the luxury of overlooking or avoiding market discontentment for very long?
Second, in my business (corporate-type) we would *kill* for the kind of market intelligence that this thead holds. CT represents the best and brightest customers, the kind of customers with whom a constructive relationship will almost naturally drive to market success. This is the very essence of the "Web 2.0" idea. There should be *no question* of the value of engaging this community in dialog, and *no hesitation* in doing so. Even the negative dialog can be beneficial. Maybe especially the negative. But you have to participate to get the benefit.
No one is going anywhere. All BSR did was post some examples of posts that bothered SH, there are no other motives, so there is no reason for people to get upset. We need to work together so we can make some progress on this issue. If SH is truly interested in fixing this situation, then we should get some interesting responses, if they aren't ... well, you get to send me a "I told you so" PM 
As a relatively new adopter to Insteon and the HA world in general, it is very disconcerting to see this kind of behavior from SH. All they need to do is take a look at UDI (and I don't even OWN a ISY). The ISY has bugs in it, no one would claim otherwise, but Michel and the UDI team either a) address them immediately or b ) acknowledge the error and state that it is to be addressed at a later date.
This kind of honesty isn't rocket science. Its good business practice. SH is shunning a very large and potentially very beneficial community for them. I am sure UDI highly values the time and effort their customer base volunteers to assist in making the ISY a better product.
Since this is my first post here (have been reading for quite some time) I can tell you I have no offensive prior posts or preconceived ill will. I simply want reassurance that SH will do the right thing. I recently purchased a KPL and SL and they are just sitting in their boxes now. I have lost any enthusiasm to install because of the information I am reading here, at Techmall and at the UDI forums. I can guarantee that I will not purchase anything further from SH until I know this issue has been fixed, or at the very least, SH openly addresses its community.
@ SH, the longer you sit idly by watching this thread or others, the more disinformation (possibly) and customer loss you will experience. While you may not get everyone here on your side by offering honesty on the issues, I bet more than you think would welcome the move and champion its success. Whether they are Insteon adopters or not, they all want HA to succeed and evolve.
This kind of honesty isn't rocket science. Its good business practice. SH is shunning a very large and potentially very beneficial community for them. I am sure UDI highly values the time and effort their customer base volunteers to assist in making the ISY a better product.
Since this is my first post here (have been reading for quite some time) I can tell you I have no offensive prior posts or preconceived ill will. I simply want reassurance that SH will do the right thing. I recently purchased a KPL and SL and they are just sitting in their boxes now. I have lost any enthusiasm to install because of the information I am reading here, at Techmall and at the UDI forums. I can guarantee that I will not purchase anything further from SH until I know this issue has been fixed, or at the very least, SH openly addresses its community.
@ SH, the longer you sit idly by watching this thread or others, the more disinformation (possibly) and customer loss you will experience. While you may not get everyone here on your side by offering honesty on the issues, I bet more than you think would welcome the move and champion its success. Whether they are Insteon adopters or not, they all want HA to succeed and evolve.
Steve
Senior Member
Great job Mr. Lagerhead. You just articulated very well what I was thinking and struggling to express. I agree it is truly baffling that SH would say this and want to continue to sit back and wait until many of their obviously very upset customers stop expressing their feelings. The only way to change this is for someone at an executive level at SH to come out and address it, otherwise the malcontent will keep breeding until it reaches a point of no return. I don't think anyone wants to see SH fail and all they need to do is listen to some constructive criticism and make some changes before its too late. I personally have no stake in Insteon or SH either, but I truly do hope it works out for those that do.
123
Senior Member
Call me cynical but I don't foresee a rosy future. Once a manufacturer objects to a customer's "tone", you know dialog has died.
Defective products and half-hearted support are a recipe for disaster. The marketplace is filled with stories like these and their last chapter is "13".
Good luck to everyone.
Defective products and half-hearted support are a recipe for disaster. The marketplace is filled with stories like these and their last chapter is "13".
Good luck to everyone.
Dear SH we deleted the posts that you told the moderator upset you. Some of us are going away as well since you dont want us around. The water is now safe so jump on in and help your customers and prove how good of a company you really are.
Your help will be appreciated by those in need.
Your help will be appreciated by those in need.
KenM
Active Member
No one is going anywhere. All BSR did was post some examples of posts that bothered SH, there are no other motives, so there is no reason for people to get upset. We need to work together so we can make some progress on this issue. If SH is truly interested in fixing this situation, then we should get some interesting responses, if they aren't ... well, you get to send me a "I told you so" PM
I am out of here, BUT, I do intend to do a 'bump' on this thread three or four months down the line (after no responses from SH). That should add to the credibility of this company a whole heck of a lot. You think?
k
No one is going anywhere. All BSR did was post some examples of posts that bothered SH, there are no other motives, so there is no reason for people to get upset. We need to work together so we can make some progress on this issue. If SH is truly interested in fixing this situation, then we should get some interesting responses, if they aren't ... well, you get to send me a "I told you so" PM
I am out of here, BUT, I do intend to do a 'bump' on this thread three or four months down the line (after no responses from SH). That should add to the credibility of this company a whole heck of a lot. You think?
k
Ken it wont take that long to know the truth. I think they have no choice now but to help people. They made a promise that they would come and participate and now it must be kept. We should know in a few days if they show up or not. If they dont we can all send Dan a PM
JimInSoCal
New Member
I just found this forum and think it is great. I have not paid much attention to what is going on in home automation for a few years and while I had heard of INSTEAON, I did notknow that there were so many other new protocols. It is a pity that the industry did not get together and develop one reliable protocol so that all devices could play together.
My house is controlled by a Stargate controller, hard wired motion detectors, 3 KeypadLinks, a few X-10 Pro lamp controllers and almost every wall switch is a X-10 SwitchLink. I have forgotten how many SwitchLinks I had go bad, but it was a lot.
I bought my first SwitchLink wall switch from the first batch about 8 years ago. The only place we had then to talk about X-10 problems was the Usenet Newsgroup comp.home.automation and there were a few people that claimed that problems with the device were do to operator error and those of us who had problems, which was just about everyone who owned a SwitchLink knew that was not the case. It was believed by many that the people who defended the product were mostly employees of SmartHome so the current reaction to problems does not seem new at all.
I do have a question though. As I am pretty much buried in X-10 and my system works fairly well (no wife here to complain) it is either stick with X-10 or rip out everything and give up. I need a wall switch and a couple of lamp modules. I understand that the INSTEAON products will work in X-10 mode. Do the current problems with the Link products affect their performance in X-10 mode.
As an aside, I sometimes wonder if any system that uses the power line to send/recieve signals can be mission critical reliable.
Thanks for your help if you can answer my X-10 INSTEAON question.
Cheers, Jim.
My house is controlled by a Stargate controller, hard wired motion detectors, 3 KeypadLinks, a few X-10 Pro lamp controllers and almost every wall switch is a X-10 SwitchLink. I have forgotten how many SwitchLinks I had go bad, but it was a lot.
I bought my first SwitchLink wall switch from the first batch about 8 years ago. The only place we had then to talk about X-10 problems was the Usenet Newsgroup comp.home.automation and there were a few people that claimed that problems with the device were do to operator error and those of us who had problems, which was just about everyone who owned a SwitchLink knew that was not the case. It was believed by many that the people who defended the product were mostly employees of SmartHome so the current reaction to problems does not seem new at all.
I do have a question though. As I am pretty much buried in X-10 and my system works fairly well (no wife here to complain) it is either stick with X-10 or rip out everything and give up. I need a wall switch and a couple of lamp modules. I understand that the INSTEAON products will work in X-10 mode. Do the current problems with the Link products affect their performance in X-10 mode.
As an aside, I sometimes wonder if any system that uses the power line to send/recieve signals can be mission critical reliable.
Thanks for your help if you can answer my X-10 INSTEAON question.
Cheers, Jim.
At this point, it seems like the issue boils down to use the newer I2 command set to program the devices. When using the original I1 commands to program the devices (which the latest ISY firmware has reverted to), things seem back to normal for the majority of people. The problem doesn't seem to be related to devices sending/receiving operating commands, just when programming and configuring them. So, X10 operation should be no problem. Keep in mind, however, that Insteon devices are 2-way X10 devices. When adding any 2-way X10 device to your powerline, you may notice a degredation in your X10 signal.
Good luck!
JimInSoCal
New Member
Thanks MikeB and Digger for the very fast replies. And thank you for the reminder Mike about the about the switches being two way. While that feature may degrade te signal, it is one of the things I like about the switches as they tell my controller what their state is - on or off.
I have often thought that power line control would be much more reliable if xmitters and receivers had two way communication so that the receiver would acknowledge receipt of a command and if that did not happen that the transmitter would resend the command. Perhaps some of these, new to me, protocols have that feature. I have not had time to read about all of them yet.
I installed an ACT coupler/repeater about ten years ago and it does not seem to work as well as it used to. I expect that electrical devices like this don't wear out and that they either work or break. I assume that the problem is signal degradation from all the SwitchLinks and KeypadLinks that I have installed. I have installed two BoosterLinks and they have helped a lot. Imagine - a Link product that works as described.
Sorry to be so far off topic, but I have one more off topic question and don't know the right place to ask it. In other forums in which I participate - mostly remote controls and Indy Car auto racing - there is the ability to 'go to last unread message' in a thread. I must be missing something as I don't see how to do that here. Is that possible here?
Thank you, Jim.
I have often thought that power line control would be much more reliable if xmitters and receivers had two way communication so that the receiver would acknowledge receipt of a command and if that did not happen that the transmitter would resend the command. Perhaps some of these, new to me, protocols have that feature. I have not had time to read about all of them yet.
I installed an ACT coupler/repeater about ten years ago and it does not seem to work as well as it used to. I expect that electrical devices like this don't wear out and that they either work or break. I assume that the problem is signal degradation from all the SwitchLinks and KeypadLinks that I have installed. I have installed two BoosterLinks and they have helped a lot. Imagine - a Link product that works as described.
Sorry to be so far off topic, but I have one more off topic question and don't know the right place to ask it. In other forums in which I participate - mostly remote controls and Indy Car auto racing - there is the ability to 'go to last unread message' in a thread. I must be missing something as I don't see how to do that here. Is that possible here?
Thank you, Jim.
When you are looking at the forum, any thread that has a new post will have a small orange colored box to the left of the thread name. Simply click on the colored box and it will take you into the thread to the first unread post.
If you click on the "View new posts" button at the top of the page, it will show any threads that have new posts together. So you don't have to switch from one forum to another to see what threads have new posts. You'll still need to press on the orange button to go to the first unread post in each thread.
Yes, Insteon does have that feature. Insteon devices send an initial group command to the powerline. Members of that group will perform the requested action (turn on, off, whatever). After sending the group command, the sending device then sends a direct "cleanup" command to each member of that group, to be sure they heard the initial group command. If the responder does not acknowledge, the sending device keeps retrying the command until finally giving up (after 5 tries).
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