More INSTEON quality control issues!

[Xpendable]

We have just made the following official statement at JLTSoft: http://www.jltsoft.com

NOTICE TO CUSTOMERS


It has recently come to our attention that many of the currently shipping LampLinc and ApplianceLinc modules from Smarthome are defective due to new firmware bugs introduced in the latest revisions of these modules. Unfortunately, Smarthome has not been forthcoming about these issues and at this time we have no knowledge of when these issues will be fixed. JLTSoft regrets the lack of quality control at Smarthome and the lack of 3rd party developer support to developers such as ourselves. We hope that Smarthome will rectify these issues in a timely manner. We will update our customers here when we know more. For the time being, we recommend our customers to not purchase any LampLinc or ApplianceLinc modules until it can be confirmed that Smarthome has fixed the problems and stopped shipping the defective products.

Sincerely,
Jason LeSueur Tatum
President, JLTSoft

 

[sorka]

They need to test their firmware with at least the 3rd party products they sell before releasing it and they would avoid these issues. SH needs to realize that a lot of 3rd party vendors have ceased direct development with the PLM and are relying on the ISY now (i.e. HomeSeer). And they suspended direct development for these very reasons, SH's inability to work with and support them properly.

This is exactly why I purchased the ISY-99i. I have a considerable Insteon installation and didn't want to abandon it if possible, but lack of support from both Smarthome and Homeseer forced me into it. Thank goodness there's a third party, UDI, that is very responsive to suggestions and fixing issues. They provide a a buffer to both SH and HS because they're actually taking on SH and HS issues that aren't their own.

 

[icellama21]

Just out of curiosity, given all of these difficulties, how does Insteon compare to X10? Is it still significantly better? I'd imagine all of the time spent on its failures and headaches could be spent on building a somewhat reliable x10 network that doesn't depend on the next release of XXXX. I'm toying with the idea of X10 for extreme budget-crunchers, those that only want to automate a few things and are OK with shotty reliability. I was considering Insteon, but it honestly sounds like a higher failure rate than X10. I realize people are loyal to it due to the sunk cost, but does it hold any benefits anymore?

PS: I think I should clarify. I'm trying to get a feel for how serious these issues really are, or if it is more just a few people complaining. For a large job, obviously not x10. But has the quality really fallen that low, or is it more a crisis of expectation(expected high-end reliability and quality at hobbyist pricing).

 

[MikeB]

Insteon is definitely far more reliable than X10 was in my home.

 

[sorka]

Just out of curiosity, given all of these difficulties, how does Insteon compare to X10? Is it still significantly better? I'd imagine all of the time spent on its failures and headaches could be spent on building a somewhat reliable x10 network that doesn't depend on the next release of XXXX. I'm toying with the idea of X10 for extreme budget-crunchers, those that only want to automate a few things and are OK with shotty reliability. I was considering Insteon, but it honestly sounds like a higher failure rate than X10. I realize people are loyal to it due to the sunk cost, but does it hold any benefits anymore?

There's no comparison. X10 can't hold a candle to Insteon even with the QC problems Insteon has had. Trying to "tune" x10 systems over the years got very tiresome. You could practically sneeze and suddenly things would stop working. Plugging anything in could ruin your day. Plus x10 is inherently limited in scale due to that the more you add, the weaker the signal gets as every x10 devices acts as sync. With Insteon, the more devices you add, the stronger the signal gets as each device acts as a repeater with all devices in hearing range repeating the same signal in sync.

The fundamental technology is sound. It's SH's execution that has had issues.

 

[gatchel]

I agree. The protocol is much better than the X-10 alternatives. I just dont want to Beta test for them....

 

[electron]

So how about we figure out the minimum they have to do in order to restore some of our confidence in the INSTEON product line. Constructive criticism is an important step in the process of resolving a situation like this, so let's give that a try and hope SmartHome will take some notes.

 

[WayneW]

So how about we figure out the minimum they have to do in order to restore some of our confidence in the INSTEON product line. Constructive criticism is an important step in the process of resolving a situation like this, so let's give that a try and hope SmartHome will take some notes.

This isn't rocket surgery...

• They need to accept warranty claims from people who bought things from Home Depot, Automated Outlet, etc
• They need to announce and document firmware changes in devices
• They need to actively work with 3rd party software developers
• They need to come clean about i2 issues and v35 issues
• They need to stop the heavy censoring of their forum. (especially by non-employees, which means that mgmt is unaware of many posts)
• They need to work cooperatively with HA distributors, not competitively. They should not be the only place that pros can purchase at dealer prices.
• They need to stop retroactively changing the terms of their dealer agreement and lying about it.

 

[Xpendable]

I agree with everything on WayneW's list, but I have a few things to add:

• Halt shipment of products known to be seriously defective from a hardware or firmware standpoint (I'm looking at you, major firmare issues!) and prevent them from being sold to unsuspecting customers. There is absolutely no excuse for this.
• Greatly improve quality control, both pre-production and post-production. When you are shipping products that don't even pass simple scene activation tests due to firmware bugs, then somebody is not doing their job.
• Notify all developers in the SDK forum about all coming changes to existing products, and notify them before they ship. Neither happens today.

 

[WayneW]

Ok.... so how do we get SH to read the suggestions? They don't seem to read their own forum and the only person from SH that seems to frequent Cocoontech that I have noticied is the Techmall Moderator. I doubt he will pass this information up the food chain.

I bet we have a nice bunch of SH lurkers here and maybe on their own forum, who wish they could speak out. I see some people using their obvious names were here last month and there is no way for us of knowing who has names we don't recognize or are just using "guest". Just look at how long HAI was lurking before they decided to out themselves and look at the nice welcome they got

 

[KenM]

Ok.... so how do we get SH to read the suggestions?

Not to add or detract from any of this. I am 56 now, but still vividly remember, years ago, a high school civics class where the teacher was trying to explain the power of the consumer to a bunch of teenagers. He was talking about buying a loaf of your favorite bread being equal to casting a vote in an election. It seemed good advice then, as now. Sooner or later, if the people that buy a particular product are not happy with it, well, it will not exist any more.

That would be my suggestion as to why SH should maybe be a 'little' worried about wanting to hear and respond to some of the complaints/observations. I would hope installers are smart enough to read messages and make their own conclusions. The average consumer may not understand why he/she has to keep buying 'new improved' equipment. In an 'imperfect' world, I would guess that some folks would just keep selling the cr@p and expect the consumers to eat the company's mistakes. I put my faith in the consumer in the end.

Just some thoughts...

Ken

Edit added:
Just for the sake of accuracy, I still keep a full box of my original INSTEON devices (out of warranty - now rendered junk by design errors). If anyone doubts anything I say about INSTEON, I will gladly give up a few to be tested by a impartial third party. I suspect that would be all that is needed.
k

 

[BLH]

Well I have 2412S PLM modules with a firmware range from 2.4 to 7.2 and I believe it is even at a higher level now.

Smarthme maybe starting to get the message. Though I think it maybe the number of problems with the new hardware switches and modules.

Alone with UDI and Smarthome they are going to take some of my problem modules and see what they can find.

 

[electron]

I have gotten in touch with SmartHome, and they are aware of the thread now. One way or another, they should be posting a response soon.

 

[sic0048]

I have gotten in touch with SmartHome, and they are aware of the thread now. One way or another, they should be posting a response soon.

Thanks Dan. I've stayed out of this conversation because I don't have a dog in the fight, but it is crazy that the moderator of the other forum is censoring so much of the material. SH needs to know that, so hopefully this thread (that the moderator cannot delete) will help in that regard.

Obviously SH already knows they have hardware and software problems with their Insteon equipment. But hopefully they will be open to some of the very good suggestions made in this thread. Most of those suggestions revolve around better communication.

 

[az1324]

so i2 is still broken? wow. what about the supposed hop count issue?