Need help/recommendations for wired HA system controller and components

These are the battery powered keypads I am planning on putting up in the switch locations.
http://www.smarthome.com/59373/GE-45631-Z-Wave-Wireless-Keypad-Controller/p.aspx

I will probably add some ventilation fans to the enclosure with the dimmer switches. Hopefully I will be around 32 dimmer switches when I'm done. I actually have like 42 switch legs but I can condense it some. I tested end the range of the keypad to the switch location an it works great with no other devices repeating to extend range. Longevity and reliability are my main concerns, but for the price, I think it's my best option initially.
 
neillt said:
I am surprised no one has mentioned the HAI Omni-Bus system.  They now have 110 volt compatibility over the entire line, and it's a DIN rail mounted central system.
 
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=61021&minisite=10251
 
 
Ooooooo...  These are kind of sweet.  Plus, easy to mount in an enclosure with DIN rails.  They are a lot more money than Z-wave though.  The only price I could find on the smallest dimmer module was $133.  Figure in keypads, the bigger dimmers, the control, etc; and it's probably around the same cost as an Elegance XL.  I couldn't find the Omni-bus stuff with any of my distributors though, even though they sell HAI gear.  But, their online search is terrible, and I frequently have to just call them for pricing on things.
 
Going to use battery powered ge key pad controllers to add switch locations. will just tuck away the gard wiring for now. any thoughts??
 
Personally; yup; remote battery powered keypads would be a mickey mouse solution; but that is my personal opinion.
 
neillt said:
I am surprised no one has mentioned the HAI Omni-Bus system.  They now have 110 volt compatibility over the entire line, and it's a DIN rail mounted central system.
 
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=61021&minisite=10251
 
As far as I know, the 110V version was supposed to become available end of 2013, but was not shipping yet in December. It could be any day now, I suppose. This product is certainly looking very good, as it is modular. However, the modularity will come at a price, so for 48 loads I think Elegance will be less expensive. Also, I do not see a fan controller in that line.
 
Jeremian said:
These are the battery powered keypads I am planning on putting up in the switch locations.
http://www.smarthome.com/59373/GE-45631-Z-Wave-Wireless-Keypad-Controller/p.aspx

I will probably add some ventilation fans to the enclosure with the dimmer switches. Hopefully I will be around 32 dimmer switches when I'm done. I actually have like 42 switch legs but I can condense it some. I tested end the range of the keypad to the switch location an it works great with no other devices repeating to extend range. Longevity and reliability are my main concerns, but for the price, I think it's my best option initially.
 
I do not know what is your budget, but if it was my house, I would get the absolute minimum number of zwave switches to get the house livable initially, and then shop around for a hard-wired lighting system. You've got more than half the cost of installation already covered, so getting the quality components, UL certified and with good warranty, will save you time and money in the long run. zwave switches are not known for reliability, longevity or ease of programming/integration. If you buy 32 moderately priced (and with respective quality) switches at say $45 each, and 10 battery keypads at $45, and a programming device, you will be spending close to 2K just on the gear that will probably last a couple of years, and you'd have to change the batteries. I don't have today's prices for Elegance, but if I use the data from 5 years ago, you could get a new 48 dimmer system with 5 yr warranty, that supports 96 buttons (in any combination you desire, from 1 to 8 per gang) for about 5K. And for additional $500 you could get 4 fan controllers ($125 per fan). If you shop around, you may be able to pick it up for less than that. Adding HAI or Elk will give you a very good automation system with great support. Or you could get a vera and write your own plugin, if you like to be more on a DIY side.
 
It might be a little bit late but what I understand is Jeremian have a single Lutron green cable (2 pair, one unsheilded 18awg and one sheilded 22awg). If I'm right it's a daisy chain running from control room trough every electrical box (start---box 1---box n---end).
 
 
It make me think about RS485 protocol that Industrial automation like Omron uses for remote IO communication. The unsheilded 18awg pair carry 24vdc to supply remote and the 22awg pair carry data via +- channel.
 
 
What Jeremian would need to make it's light work the way it was wired is:
  1. Addressable switch that can be linked in daisy chain and use rs485 protocol
  2. 15 amp AC outputs 
  3. Programmable Logic Controller to talk with device and trigger the outputs
 
That said, the only thing I can figure is industrial stuff or HVAC stuff like Strato automation using BACnet. All those solution are not cost efficient..... The main problem with that kind of wiring is that you need a split system; low voltage control on one side and power management on the other side with a controller in between.
 
 
That said, maybe there is an other way to solve the problem. If you hack  X-10 or UPB switch and use HAI or ELK as controller you could get a long way. Because most of RS485 cable are rated for 300V (make sure your cable can handle it), you can connect 120v and neutral to all switches without connecting load. Then, when you activate or desactivate a switch, it would create an event in the controller. The created event could activate a local output...OR, with extra money, it would even be possible to duplicate the non load network in the controller room with the load connected to those switch and use your controller as a ''repeater''. When you toggle the bathroom 1 switch, it tell the controller to toggle the bathroom 1-1 switch.
 
With the duplicated network, it would be possible to use all function of the chosen network (i.e. multiple scene selection).
 
It's an untested raw idea so I would be happy if other members could look into it if it's doable.
 
WOW.
 
Yanik....while the insulation may have a voltage rating of XXX volts, it DOES NOT mean the cabling is rated for the voltage or ampacity of such. It's not doable nor is it recommended to even consider doing such.
 
Systems are segregated by voltages for a reason.
 
DELInstallations said:
WOW.
 
Yanik....while the insulation may have a voltage rating of XXX volts, it DOES NOT mean the cabling is rated for the voltage or ampacity of such. It's not doable nor is it recommended to even consider doing such.
 
Systems are segregated by voltages for a reason.
 
This would fail an inspection before it even started.
 
As long as the inspector really paid attention. Many don't understand or know enough about HV/LV interfacing or technologies...they really only know what they see in the wild or what is generally good workmanship or poor workmanship.
 
I've heard of a "project" that was done near me that a DIY/HO that had enough knowledge to be dangerous used 18/4 to run HV circuits in their media room/basement based on the voltage rating printed on the cable (500V I believe, possibly 300V) and burnt a good portion of their house down.
 
signal15 said:
This would fail an inspection before it even started.
I don't want to mislead anybody. The cable rating must be at least 300V and if so, the 18awg pair must be used (good for 5 amp).
 
I would submit the project as follow for approbation to a local certified electrician: 
 
  • Pull a branch from 15amp braker in main pannel wired 14awg to a control cabinet.
  • Inside control cabinet, wire a:
    120v distribution for the Home controller (let say Hai Omnipro II)
  • 5 amp fuse protected distribution for control cable
  • connect the control cable to the 5 amp distribution

[*]Connect all UPB switch (only the black and white wire with red cable cancelled) to the 18awg control cable. This must be done in daisy chain (in parallel)
  • note the UPB switch use 7.2 watt to power up their embedded computer so you could theoretically plug up to 83 switch before blowing the fuse

[*]Connect the Omni pro to the 15 amp distribution
[*]Replace the existing rocker switch in the control room by the exact replica (but with different addresses) of what you have installed on the control cable and, this time, connect the red cable to load.
 
This way to plug the control cable is secure. The only way it would be refused is if the cable rating does not support the 120v.
 
 
I hope this made my idea more clear and I apologize if my first post misled anyone.
 
The cable rating does not support 120V.
 
You are reading insulation voltage ratings.
 
Again, what you are proposing goes completely against manufacturer's installation instructions and would fail inspection from that point forward.
 
What you're proposing is no different than installing a centralized switched load system, which would function better with a whole lot less work.
 
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