so, my neighborhood is going through somewhat of a crime wave... people's garages are being burglarized while open and left unattended, vehicles getting broken into, not to mention my own burglary this past april (still the biggest one to date, for which everyone else is thankful, i'm sure). i'd like to approach the HOA with some sort of proposal for neighborhood wide video monitoring, but i'd like to get some background. has anything like this ever been done? basically, i think cameras at all entry/exit points plus alley entry/exit points would be beneficial. any and all info is welcome as this is the first time i've ever even thought about something like this.
Neighborhood-wide monitoring
- Thread starter DeLicious
- Start date
BraveSirRobbin
Moderator
We had a few incidents of crime and vandalism in our small gated community (84 homes, one entry/exit gate and community park). I was actually president of the HOA at the time and proposed a camera surveillance system that comprised of one camera at the entry way that would take "snapshots" of vehicles that entered the gate as well as one that looked over our park area.
These camera would be day/night and would be connected to an Axis 241Q video server that would reside inside a box along with DSL connection on the "inside pillar" of the gate entry area. We had the luxury of power and a phone line as they were already placed there for the gates. I was also considering using "Keyon" as they would give us broadband access with a one ft square antenna.
Access to live video feeds could be obtained via the Internet and would be restricted via user name and password just for our residents. We already have a community web site so the images would just be sent via FTP on an image change (all done via the Axis 241Q). The theory here was I would have cheaper "non-IP" cameras exposed in case they were stolen or vandalized (the Axis and DSL boxes would be inside a locked secured box).
I got contractor estimates for a pole to mount the boxes as well as the cameras themselves. I was going to do all the setup for the Axis installation and connection to the cameras (i.e. save a lot of money for the community).
I thought this would also be a great tool for parents as they could keep on eye on their kids playing in the park area. We were also having a problem with owners walking their dogs (yea feces) in the park and I thought this would help with that problem as well.
When I proposed this scheme to the community I was surprisingly met with STRONG resistance. Residents were actually shouting that they did not want their kids on camera and also anyone knowing their comings and goings through the gate would be an invasion of their privacy.
Long story short, I wound up cancelling the concept all together due to the negativity of the community and the rest of the HOA board.
I was shocked as this seemed a no-brainer to me. We had more than enough money to implement such a security deterrent. To me, it seemed people first have to become a victim of such an event before they want any such systems in place. Denial was strong, even after I told them of the few events that happened in open HOA meetings (and the community was very new at the time). I couldn't even get support for a neighborhood watch program!
Anyway, you do have to worry some about legal ramifications, most notably the "feeling of increased security" that residents may have with such systems. Long story short, you can place legal language in effect to counter this (our by-laws and CC&R's have such language for our entry/exit gates). Basically you are stating that the system does not offer extra security for the community. As stupid as this sounds there are legal cases where people went out in the middle of the night in their communities, became a victim of crime, and then blamed it on the security camera systems (they said that they thought they would have been secure/safe because this system was in place).
Anyway, sorry for the long diatribe, just wanted to give you my experience as this reaction caught me by surprise!
These camera would be day/night and would be connected to an Axis 241Q video server that would reside inside a box along with DSL connection on the "inside pillar" of the gate entry area. We had the luxury of power and a phone line as they were already placed there for the gates. I was also considering using "Keyon" as they would give us broadband access with a one ft square antenna.
Access to live video feeds could be obtained via the Internet and would be restricted via user name and password just for our residents. We already have a community web site so the images would just be sent via FTP on an image change (all done via the Axis 241Q). The theory here was I would have cheaper "non-IP" cameras exposed in case they were stolen or vandalized (the Axis and DSL boxes would be inside a locked secured box).
I got contractor estimates for a pole to mount the boxes as well as the cameras themselves. I was going to do all the setup for the Axis installation and connection to the cameras (i.e. save a lot of money for the community).
I thought this would also be a great tool for parents as they could keep on eye on their kids playing in the park area. We were also having a problem with owners walking their dogs (yea feces) in the park and I thought this would help with that problem as well.
When I proposed this scheme to the community I was surprisingly met with STRONG resistance. Residents were actually shouting that they did not want their kids on camera and also anyone knowing their comings and goings through the gate would be an invasion of their privacy.
Long story short, I wound up cancelling the concept all together due to the negativity of the community and the rest of the HOA board.
I was shocked as this seemed a no-brainer to me. We had more than enough money to implement such a security deterrent. To me, it seemed people first have to become a victim of such an event before they want any such systems in place. Denial was strong, even after I told them of the few events that happened in open HOA meetings (and the community was very new at the time). I couldn't even get support for a neighborhood watch program!
Anyway, you do have to worry some about legal ramifications, most notably the "feeling of increased security" that residents may have with such systems. Long story short, you can place legal language in effect to counter this (our by-laws and CC&R's have such language for our entry/exit gates). Basically you are stating that the system does not offer extra security for the community. As stupid as this sounds there are legal cases where people went out in the middle of the night in their communities, became a victim of crime, and then blamed it on the security camera systems (they said that they thought they would have been secure/safe because this system was in place).
Anyway, sorry for the long diatribe, just wanted to give you my experience as this reaction caught me by surprise!
hucker
Active Member
The next time you sell this you might do so by saying that the system will ignore all plates in the neighborhood and only show strangers comings and goings.
BTW, I have a friend who does this on his own. He has a camera in his driveway that can see the street and get good shots of plates. Works very well.
BraveSirRobbin
Moderator
FYI: I resigned as HOA President and gave this up...
Rupp
Senior Member
Which camera (system) is your friend using?
IVB
Senior Member
I was actually asked and was going to run for our neighborhood crime prevention council in addition to an Oakland-wide volunteer council position, and then I realized I could make much more progress as a private party. My neighbors have occasionally said something to me about their right to privacy, to which the entirety of my response was:
"My cameras are not pointed at anyone's house. You have no expectation of privacy once you leave your house, nor should you. Deal with it."
I've gotten 2 of my like-minded neighbors to do the same, and i'm chipping away at the rest. I wouldn't dare try this in any official setting due to the blowback, but there's nothing preventing me from getting 1 neighbor at a time to install them.
"My cameras are not pointed at anyone's house. You have no expectation of privacy once you leave your house, nor should you. Deal with it."
I've gotten 2 of my like-minded neighbors to do the same, and i'm chipping away at the rest. I wouldn't dare try this in any official setting due to the blowback, but there's nothing preventing me from getting 1 neighbor at a time to install them.
Steve
Senior Member
We have a community similar to BSR but there are no gates. There is a 'fake' guardhouse - a real building but unmanned. We had a rash of people stealing plants and stuff and messing with the front entry sign, etc. They decided to put in cameras for that. There are 4 cameras (one on each corner of the building) to see coming/going on each side. They all go into a DVR inside the guardhouse building. There have been no stolen plants since. Typically the HOA board has the authority to do things such as this without resident approval, but if the board cannot agree, thats a different story. But I bet when THEIR stuff is affected, they change their mind in a hurry...
hucker
Active Member
He's out of country for a week, will reply next week.
123
Senior Member
I live in Montreal and "gated community" is a foreign concept to me. I can't pretend to truly understand the mindset of people living in an enclave. I can guess a "gated community" suggests greater security by virtue of exclusion. Having an "owner's association" indicates a desire for a local government that accurately reflects the community's values. So, yeah, it's puzzling to learn that people living together, wary of external threats, wouldn't want video surveillance of the main gate.
On the flip side, if I lived in a gated community I'd be asking myself "400 years of progress yet my community is still built like Jamestown?". I'm guessing people don't *want* to live in gated communities but believe they *need* to due to perceived threats (or simply the nicest homes are there). Any additional security measures that record my activities, so close to home, is asking a bit too much.
FWIW, I'd have supported your proposal.
