Networking issues... which wireless access point should I buy?

etc6849

Senior Member
I live in a two story 2700 sq ft home. The problem is I have my wireless router in an upstairs closet near a structured wiring box and this closet is at one end of the house as this is where the cable line comes in.

When I'm surfing the web in the closet on my new phone using (Galaxy S3) I get ~20000kpbs, but when I go downstairs, I get ~10000kpbs and if I'm at the other end of the home downstairs, I get nothing!?!

I'm using a Netgear WNDR3700 and it has no external antennae, although there are mods where one could add them. Is this worth doing or should I just invest in a wireless access point?

Moving the router would be a hassle as the cable modem is inside the structured wiring box so I'd have to run two ethernet cables (uplink and one to go back to the main switch) along with power.
 
You should look into a wireless extender or a second access point. Replacing your router is probably not going to help much, they are all set to put out the same amount of power for the most part. Some older ones, you could load DDWRT and crank the power, but the newer ones already run at max power. Typically you'll lose half your bandwidth when repeating. The other option is to relocate your AP, and/or try different channels.

I kind of like the looks of the Ubiquiti Unifi's. Thought about getting one (or more) for my house. Note to load DDWRT on a Ubiquiti requires a paid license (if you want to do that).
 
Engenius is actually a pretty good brand. We've used their cordless phones for years, range in the miles on some of the older units.
 
Thanks BSR ;) I do know the Ubiquiti brand pretty well... I've installed a LOT of their equipment in a lot of environments. I've used Wifi since the very beginning (back when a Wifi PCMCIA card had a 30ft range and cost >$300), but things have evolved, and I've spent the last 18 months or so doing some hardcore wifi engineering and learned a lot more.

I've actually moved away from the PicoM2HP - Even though it's an N device, it's single chain and not MIMO, meaning it maxes out on a single transfer stream at about 65mb. It's great for certain purposes but even better options have come out. I've never really believed in having the WAP as part of the router either. Routers so often are located in a corner of the house or a wiring closet where the wiring is concentrated and not in a central location. I always buy regular routers or just disable internal Wifi and use a regular WAP in a good central location.

I really like the Ubiquiti UAP-LR's - they're a ceiling mount detector that blends incredibly well. Another one is the UAP-Outdoor - for a wall-mount style. I keep a UAP-LR on top of my kitchen cabinets about at the middle of my 4,000 sq ft house, and I can get almost 200ft away outside and still be connected. Now if range outdoors is an issue, I can go into much more detail. The only catch that some people don't like is that you must run their controller software separate (It's their UniFi line). It runs on Windows, OSX or Linux, and only needs to be running for setup... and let me tell you, whether you're a seasoned IT pro or a newbie, it's just amazing how simple setup of a WAP is with their software - literally I just couldn't believe how little there was to do.

With no disrespect intended, I've never gotten the point of the DD-WRT conversions. And when it comes to specifically upping the power of the Wifi, there's no good reason. If you have a signal propagation issue, increasing power can actually cause more problems than it solves. It comes down to receiving signal vs. sending; the power levels of the devices it's communicating with, and the associated noise created by sending stronger signals which now reflect off of everything and create spectral noise - it's actually the exact opposite of what any highly experienced Wifi engineer would do. The people who know Wifi would instead turn the power down on the AP's and install more to get a better signal/noise ratio and increase overall throughput.

OK - I'm done with the general Wifi primer/rant... any specific questions I can answer?

And FYI - I am a reseller of Ubiquiti along with most other brands; though markup is nilch, if you want personalized help with the products, I'm happy to help.
 
Thanks Work2Play! I don't mind Ubiquiti Unifi as I keep a windows PC running now and it looks like a very reasonably priced solution. Since you were so kind enough to offer, I have a few questions:

1. I see that UAP-Pro offers a separate 5ghz radio, but do I really need this if I actually had good N signal strength via two UAP's?
2. Should I just install a single UAP-LR in the middle of my home, or a UAP-Pro or UAP at each end?
3. Do the power injectors always come with the Unifi devices (even if I order from the cheapest possible vendor)?
4. How well does the software run under Windows 7 x64? What about Windows 8 x64?

Here's the floor plan of my home:
https://docs.google....aUdSWExYdDdMUVE

Here's the place with the lowest price on the pro model... Is this a good deal or not? Feel free to PM me if not ;)
http://www.solidsign...e_base&more=yes
 
Thanks for the reply Work2Play and the informative information. Man, I need to keep up, I had no idea that the pico wasn't that latest and greatest anymore (though their range is pretty good)!
 
Yeah, I don't get the whole upping signal strength deal either, I think maybe there was value on the older chips, but in my experience it has never helped.

Now as for running DDWRT, there are a whole host of other reasons to do that, depending no what you want to do. For example, I have my AP configured with a second virtual AP for guests that also triggers actions in CQC when someone signs on so I know they are doing it. But like I said, with Ubiquiti DDWRT will cost you for a license. So the appeal may not be there, especially since Ubiquiti offers a good set of features out of the box.

As for why you may want a 5Ghz radio, it is basically another channel which can be used for additional bandwidth, or possible as the channel to bridge traffic between AP's over so you don't need to use the dedicated bandwidth to your endpoints.
 
Thanks!

Yeah, I was thinking about getting two with the 5Ghz radio just to future proof. Our new phones (Galaxy S3's) support 5Ghz and if the new windows tablets coming out do, I'll definitely want 5Ghz to stream 1080i and 1080p content. However, G seems plenty for this (if I had better signal quality than I do now).

Definitely 5Ghz has more bandwidth available. When I use the WIFI Analyzer android app to check for a free 2.4Ghz channel, there is one and I'm on it, but the adjacent channels still have folks on them, so it's probably not ideal. The 5Ghz spectrum I checked with MetaGeek's InSSIDer software and it completely empty of users!

I use DDWRT too on the netgear router, but just for stability reasons. The stock firmware would drop it's internet connection every now and then, so I switched to DDWRT several years ago and never had an issue.

As for why you may want a 5Ghz radio, it is basically another channel which can be used for additional bandwidth, or possible as the channel to bridge traffic between AP's over so you don't need to use the dedicated bandwidth to your endpoints.
 
I meant to respond to this last night but got sidetracked...

For that house, I would bet a single UAP-Pro or UAP standard will work great if placed correctly. I too have a pretty central kitchen and just put one on top of my kitchen cabinets and I get excellent coverage everywhere (1 UAP-LR covering 2 stories, 4,000sq ft and my yard + some distance away).

Whether or not to go 5Ghz - I kinda figure why not... it just gives you more bandwidth to use. 5Ghz though doesn't have nearly the same penetration as 2.4Ghz so if you were trying to scale out 5Ghz more, you might need two - but personally I wouldn't worry about that any time soon. The low penetration is also why it appears to have much more room in the spectrum - even if your neighbors use it, it won't penetrate the walls as well. Most of the time I actually use 5Ghz, it's for backhaul between radios to keep 2.4 clean.

For people who have the Pico's, if you want to move to UniFi, you can - in Ubiquiti's Unifi forum, they have a link to a special version of the Pico firmware to convert it to Unifi; this can be great if you want to upgrade to a new WAP in the house and toss the Pico outside for coverage in the yard and they'll work together - or even use the wireless backhaul if you want. Another nice thing with Unifi is it supports multiple SSID's (up to 4) that can each be configured differently - different security, guest mode isolation, even different VLAN's (that's where a netgear prosafe switch comes in handy) and even a built in payment portal and walled garden you can use if putting these in public spaces.

As far as the price - knowing what I know about the Ubiquiti supply chain, I don't even know how SolidSignal can buy them anywhere near that cheap - let alone sell them at that price. But, I've bought through them before and worked with them plenty of times - and believe them to be a good reputable company - so if that's accurate, I'd jump on it.

Powering the AP's - they always come with a passive POE injector - these are dumb injectors that just dump 48v power onto the pairs with no intelligence like 802.3af POE - but they are also compatible with regular POE switches and injectors as well. Netgear has some prosafe plus switches that have VLAN support and four POE ports - pretty handy for stuff like this. Now all that's specific to the UAP-Pro; the other UAP models use 12-24V passive POE only; if you want to power them off 802.3af they sell an instant POE adapter that's just a little pigtail that goes between the switch and the AP (same with their cameras, radios, and mFi platform) and they come in indoor and outdoor forms.

The software runs fine on Windows, Linux or Mac - it's Java based. I have instances of it running on Debian on an amazon cloud instance; another running on a debain micro PC; I run my own on my mac laptop and only fire it up to make changes; and I've run it on server 2008R2x64 and 2003 WHS - the only time problems crop up is if there's an issue with your java installation. By default it doesn't install as a windows service but there's info on fixing that.

And for BSR - the outdoor version of the UAP is 2x2 MIMO - even with the two stock rubber ducky antennas, I've managed to get a usable connection from just over 1400ft away from one (all outdoors) - talk about impressive range! I also have a 13dbi polarized directional omni that I can attach - but I haven't found a space big enough to properly test the limits of that one without running into other obstructions or ack timeouts.

UAP-Outdoor-Omni_sm.jpg
 
1400 ft range is awesome!!! Yeah, too bad solid signal raised the price already. I just went to their site and now it's $239.99!?!​

I had two of them in my cart last night, if only I'd have ordered then! Feel free to PM me with a quote...​
 
I wonder if they were counterfeit and ended up getting pulled? I read on google that Ubiquiti had an issue with counterfeit products and ended up suing one of their distributors.

As far as the price - knowing what I know about the Ubiquiti supply chain, I don't even know how SolidSignal can buy them anywhere near that cheap - let alone sell them at that price. But, I've bought through them before and worked with them plenty of times - and believe them to be a good reputable company - so if that's accurate, I'd jump on it.
 
Hi etc - just checking in to see how that Ubiquiti AP worked out for you? What kind of coverage did you end up with?
 
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