New Home Build - HA for non-tech people

[turningfinal]

Hi all

I've been reading the boards for a while to familiarize myself with home automation and all the different technologies associated with it.

My parents will soon be starting construction on their new home. Approximately 3,500sq. ft. single level main home with separate casita/guesthouse and are planning to add some basic home automation. As their son (and tech savvy) I'm tasked with figuring this out for them. Here are their requirements:

- Security system (door & window sensors, pet immune indoor motion detectors, smoke/CO detectors)
- Video surveillance (2-3 cameras, recording not a priority, they just want to see who is at the front door, etc)
- HVAC control (programmable thermostat, temperature & humidity)
- Lighting control (basic at the moment such as turning on and off outdoor lighting & select indoor lights)
- View and control all of the above from a home computer, their iPads, & their iPhones with easy to use software.
- Set it and forget it (seamless integration, cannot need constant tweaking once the system is set up)
- Reasonable pricing

The system components would be installed by the contractor/subs.

Now I've been browsing the boards and have researched the HAI & Elk systems. Out of those two, I'd lean more towards the HAI as they seem to have more of a "complete package". However I know there are many more systems out there. After looking at HAI system, it seems like a basic system meeting the requirements above would be in the ballpark of 5-6k for the components (not including wiring & installation). Is there a way to do this, meeting the requirements above, cheaper than HAI? I'd like to hear some other ideas.

Thanks,

J

 

[pbeaulieu]

One thing to consider is whether you will always be there to support them if something goes wrong or breaks. Also, will you want the basic security system to be monitored externally. If not know maybe later for medical alerts. If you answer yes to these questions then I would look at systems that can be supported by local companies.

I choose Leviton Vizia RF+ for lighting and will be installing an HAI OmniPro II (still in the box).

I checked the internet to see what local business there would be to support this equipment. I did this to help sell my better halve on the idea of security and automation. She wanted to make sure that if or when we sell the house the automation would not be a liability. She wanted to be able to point prospective buyers to local businesses that could be called should there be a failure.

My 2 cents. Good luck.

 

[apostolakisl]

The price of your project will very massively depending on how much lighting control you want. With Insteon switches at $45 a piece, and UPB and z-wave more like $80 per device, it multiplies fast.

I have Elk and it works great. At its heart it is a security system, but the HA stuff works very predictably. The wiring of the house and the contactors/motion detectors/etc. will be generic and work with most any security panel. Elk is not the most graceful to right programs on. It does have nice user interface software for touch screens, pc's, and iphones. It will also run both UPB and Insteon (and I think zwave but not positive).

I would look to IP based cameras and run ethernet to the camera locations. About $100 per device and you can record or not, your choice. Just add or don't add the software.

HVAC control will depend on the HVAC units installed. If your parents have something fancy like Carrier Infinity it will cost lots of money to integrate it with any HA system (like more than $1500). Carrier has a proprietary interface as do some of the other high end models from other companies. If their system uses standard "dumb" thermostats then they can be swapped out for ones that will integrate with HAI, Elk, Insteon, or others for a couple hundred bucks.

 

[Madcodger]

I think Paul and Lou both make great points. We sold an automated house in August that featured an Elk M1 Gold and Insteon controlled by an ISY99. I also use Homeseer, but didn't dare try to include that as something someone would need to figure out. The Elk has a TR16 serial (RS485) thermostat controlling the gas furnace and central air. The Elk itself has been no problem as a security device (I have another sitting in my garage ready for me to install in the new house, so I obviously trust it) but it took a while for the new owners to understand Elk Rules and automation in general. And I became the default instructor, which is not something most people would be willing to do (or able, if they have moved some distance away). IMO, home automation is still not ready for anyone who isn't willing to be at least a bit of a hobbyist, UNLESS you invest in something like a Crestron system (LOTS of $$$). Even the thermostat can be a problem, as evidenced by another post I wrote recently on the board (required a certain command be sent to the stat after an Elk Rule changes the temp, and it's not documented anywhere in the manuals). Thus, only a hobbyist or someone who has been hired to maintain the system AND has access to a board like this would be able to figure this out (most security companies would be clueless).

So... home automation is a great thing, a fantastic hobby, and ONE DAY might be a mainstream item for the average home. But as of right now, make sure YOU or someone else is ready to and able to maintain the system before you (or your parents) jump in. It can be a lot more work than you think.

 

[Neurorad]

Talk with the builder's subs, as they will likely be the ones installing.

 

[turningfinal]

One thing to consider is whether you will always be there to support them if something goes wrong or breaks. Also, will you want the basic security system to be monitored externally. If not know maybe later for medical alerts. If you answer yes to these questions then I would look at systems that can be supported by local companies.

I choose Leviton Vizia RF+ for lighting and will be installing an HAI OmniPro II (still in the box).

I checked the internet to see what local business there would be to support this equipment. I did this to help sell my better halve on the idea of security and automation. She wanted to make sure that if or when we sell the house the automation would not be a liability. She wanted to be able to point prospective buyers to local businesses that could be called should there be a failure.

My 2 cents. Good luck.

Thanks for the response. Unfortunately I would be more than 1,200 miles away from them most of the time but would be able to spend a few consecutive weeks out there to help them get to know the system (and the rest of the house) and make sure it's working properly. Because it's in a gated community the security system will be monitored by the neighborhood security team.

The price of your project will very massively depending on how much lighting control you want. With Insteon switches at $45 a piece, and UPB and z-wave more like $80 per device, it multiplies fast.

I have Elk and it works great. At its heart it is a security system, but the HA stuff works very predictably. The wiring of the house and the contactors/motion detectors/etc. will be generic and work with most any security panel. Elk is not the most graceful to right programs on. It does have nice user interface software for touch screens, pc's, and iphones. It will also run both UPB and Insteon (and I think zwave but not positive).

I would look to IP based cameras and run ethernet to the camera locations. About $100 per device and you can record or not, your choice. Just add or don't add the software.

HVAC control will depend on the HVAC units installed. If your parents have something fancy like Carrier Infinity it will cost lots of money to integrate it with any HA system (like more than $1500). Carrier has a proprietary interface as do some of the other high end models from other companies. If their system uses standard "dumb" thermostats then they can be swapped out for ones that will integrate with HAI, Elk, Insteon, or others for a couple hundred bucks.

I'll keep the HVAC in mind as the builder & subs spec out the different systems throughout the house. The lighting will be minimal at first and from what I understand the beauty of Insteon/UPB/Z-wave/etc. is the expansion capability in the future.

I think Paul and Lou both make great points. We sold an automated house in August that featured an Elk M1 Gold and Insteon controlled by an ISY99. I also use Homeseer, but didn't dare try to include that as something someone would need to figure out. The Elk has a TR16 serial (RS485) thermostat controlling the gas furnace and central air. The Elk itself has been no problem as a security device (I have another sitting in my garage ready for me to install in the new house, so I obviously trust it) but it took a while for the new owners to understand Elk Rules and automation in general. And I became the default instructor, which is not something most people would be willing to do (or able, if they have moved some distance away). IMO, home automation is still not ready for anyone who isn't willing to be at least a bit of a hobbyist, UNLESS you invest in something like a Crestron system (LOTS of $$$). Even the thermostat can be a problem, as evidenced by another post I wrote recently on the board (required a certain command be sent to the stat after an Elk Rule changes the temp, and it's not documented anywhere in the manuals). Thus, only a hobbyist or someone who has been hired to maintain the system AND has access to a board like this would be able to figure this out (most security companies would be clueless).

So... home automation is a great thing, a fantastic hobby, and ONE DAY might be a mainstream item for the average home. But as of right now, make sure YOU or someone else is ready to and able to maintain the system before you (or your parents) jump in. It can be a lot more work than you think.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. They are the ones that requested it, so I'll have to discuss it more in depth with them. Though once the system is installed and running properly they'd be able to manage it with ease (in my opinion). Programming it to do what they say? Not so much.

Talk with the builder's subs, as they will likely be the ones installing.

Yeah, we're going to do that. The builder mentioned most of his homes that he builds these days integrate some form of HA solution. There are multiple dealers of various HA equipment in the area so that is another option too. I'll talk with the builder and see what types of HA systems he's installed in the past and go from there.