I'm in the planning stage of a new 4 story townhouse at about 3200 sq. ft. I want to install a total automation system that includes lighting, HVAC, telephone, video, security, etc. I was originally planning to use a homerun type lighting system with low voltage controls. After doing some internet searching, it seems that this is no longer the popular choice. Most systems now seem to be moving to intelligent switch like UPB, ALS or Insteon. Any suggestions on pros and cons? Anyone have any experience with Centralite (they produce homerun control systems)? Are there other homerun control suppliers that provide the high voltage control components to interface with other integrated control systems? My preference would be to limit the number of different vendors to cut down on interface issues. I've also read some horror stories about UPB. What about HAI? Would this be a good choice for the main control with interfaces to another homerun system for the actual lighting? Any suggestions, experiences or directions would be greatly appreciated.
New home options?
- Thread starter holabr
- Start date
WayneW
Senior Member
Welcome to CocoonTech. I don't think that hardwired lighting control is going away, but it is a product that doesn't lend itself to retrofits or DIY installs, so you don't find much chat about it. In addition to CentraLite, I would look at Vantage and Lightolier. In addition to HAI, I would look at Elk M1, which is my preference.
Spanky
Senior Member
Vantage is another home run type as you describe similiar to Centralite where the dimmer electronics is located in a common wiring panel. Low voltage CAT5 wiring goes to switch banks.
OnQ ALC and EDT uses their wall switches with a CAT5 cable running from the controller to the switches.
The above companies are best to install their systems when in the stud stage of a new home. After sheetrock is installed, it is harder to install those systems.
More Options.
OnQ ALC and EDT uses their wall switches with a CAT5 cable running from the controller to the switches.
The above companies are best to install their systems when in the stud stage of a new home. After sheetrock is installed, it is harder to install those systems.
More Options.
I am in the middle of building a 2400sf house and decided on automating everything. I chose HAI based upon their reputation, versatility and affordability. They seem to integrate with many other systems. I was reluctant to control lighting with anything other than hardwired systems. The big player is Lutron HomeWorks, a hardwired system that would have cost me about $20G's. Ouch. I was referred to CentralLite's LiteJet system. The lights, fans, outlets are all homerun to a central wiring panel and all the switches are homerun to the same panel via CAT5. You may have 24 or 48 loads(2-24 load panels attached). A 48 load panel would be about $8G plus whatever the electrician wants to charge as a premium for wiring the line voltage differently. I decided to automate the 1st floor living area, 2nd floor hall and the outdoor lighting only and I was able to cut down to 24 loads and save money. I don't think I need the bathrooms and the bedrooms on the system unless someone can recommend otherwise. I took the money saved and put it into a russound whole house audio system. In the finished basement area, I decided to use HAI's UPB lighting control. I ran out of loads on the 24 LiteJet panel and did not want to spend more money for another 24 loads. My basement will only have 2 or 3 loads and a few $100 UPB switches will suffice. UPB was hands down the winner in the wireless arena according to people I spoke to. Many of which tried Z Wave, Insteon and X-10. The only con to UPB is that some hear a mild buzzing sound in the switches.
Good Luck
Good Luck
Steve
Senior Member
I think you will find that you will want several aspects of these rooms automated. Of course if you are bringing another technology such as UPB in, you can always use it after the fact. If it were me though and I was building new, I would find a way to spend the extra money up front, especially if already committing to a hardwire solution.
Hmmm, I think you are confused. There is no wireless component at all to UPB. Insteon uses wireless currently for phase bridging only but can add other stuff later. Z-Wave (and future Zigbee) is the only 100% wireless protocol.
I also prefer Elk to HAI, especially for DIY use. How many posts are there from HAI here helping people out? Now how many from Elk? Heck, there is one right here in this thread! Elk support is second to none. Nuff said.
timmetro69
New Member
True, but you have to admit that this board has an ELK tilt to it. Not saying that's bad (quite the opposite), but that doesn't fairly represent the support for HAI products, either. For instance, you'd find an entirely opposite tilt on the Worthington Distribution board.Steve said:
Not trying to stir anything up, but I don't want someone to get the wrong idea regarding HAI support based solely on the content of a single message board.
Disclaimer: I have absolutely no affiliation to HAI or any other HA or related solution. I am, however, a very happy HAI Omni Pro II owner using HLC/UPB and other HAI products throughout my home. I regularly read both cocoontech and the Worthington HAI message board and enjoy each.
Steve, you're right about wireless. I am aware of how the technologies work, however, I was at loss for a word to define lighting controls that are not hardwired with a dedicated line.
Elk does seem to be popular and well supported. I chose HAI because the Centralite dealer I chose is also an HAI dealer. I don't think HAI was a bad choice though...do you??
Elk does seem to be popular and well supported. I chose HAI because the Centralite dealer I chose is also an HAI dealer. I don't think HAI was a bad choice though...do you??
markthomas
Active Member
Now, that's not quite a fair comparison, is it? While I agree that Elk support is very good, you can find many forums and mailing lists that support HAI, with a plethora of knowledgeable dealers/installers, and in some cases, company representatives. Places like Worthington will be able to offer much more in the way of HAI integration advice than pretty much any other brand. This ample availablility of knowledge is largely due to the sheer number of installations of HAI equipment, rather than the quality of support, but still it is there.Steve said:
Steve
Senior Member
As I understand it, there are mainly 3 types of systems - hardwired, powerline and wireless. I think you were trying to describe powerline based (PLC) as UPB and Insteon aredjeyes said:
.Welcome to CocoonTech!
Ok, just to set the record straight, I do not dislike or have anything negative to say about HAI. In fact, I also was ready to buy an Omni based system before I found out about Elk. I think the company and product is very solid. My main point was really geared toward DIY support. I truly feel Elk does a better job supporting their DIY users. Looking at this board, which while true is only 1 board, it is totally non biased or manufacturer specific. We have people here answering questions from Elk, Simply Automated, Smarthome, Cortexa, Zwave (ControlThink), Powerhome, CQC, Mainlobby, RedRadio, etc, etc. I don't recall ever seeing any posts from HAI. I think there is an open invitation to any manufacturer or anyone else to participate here. I also think CT is one of the most popular and highly regarded non manufacturer or distributor specific forums in the country. Also, HAI does not have their own corporate forum for DIYers, Elk does. Worthington is perhaps the largest HAI dealer in the country, so they do a good job supporting their customers. Does HAI support take calls directly from end users (I don't know), but I know Elk does. I just feel that if I am in need of help, even on a Sunday afternoon, I am much more likely to get answers about an Elk than an Omni. I also feel for bang for the buck and especially for DIY use, Elk is a better choice, at least for me. Just like the UPB vs Insteon argument - I think most Pros use UPB while most DIYers use Insteon but they are both great products. I hope that makes sense expressing what is just my opinion...
BraveSirRobbin
Moderator
I both agree and disagree on some of your thoughts here. True, there seems to be a large percentage of Elk installs here, but I attest this to the fact that the Elk is recently new (over the last couple of years) and a lot of people are jumping on it. It brings a lot of combined resources for a reasonable price.timmetro69 said:
There are a lot of people here still using the HAI, Applied Digital (Ocelot), and JDS systems. I think as time goes on you will start to see a "normalization" of posts here.
This board, in the past, was also thought to be a "HomeSeer" forum as well. As you can see it now represents more of a general population between home automation software products (CQC, etc...).
A large factor that I ALWAYS try to discern when ever anyone wants information or recommendation on an automation system is price! This is a very large factor as some systems offer more advanced custom integration options than others. So it is not fair to compare these systems unless the price option is weighed in as well (compare apples to apples for instance).
This factor is especially apparent when HAI is mentioned. They have a custom hardware integration system that includes touch screens, camera digitizers, etc... Though Elk is just now incorporating some of these features, the HAI system is far more integrated into a total package (it's just because they have been doing this longer).
Of course all of this integration comes at a price. Can you replicate these capabilities using the Elk or other automation control systems with some “custom features†form other companies? Probably, but again, it depends on the person and the trouble he/she is willing to go through figuring out all of these options.
Another example would be the Russound whole house audio system. Here again is a nice system that represents total integration of a whole house audio distribution system complete with remotes, multiple touch pad keyboards, multiple zone/source independent control, IR distribution, etc... Of course again, this comes at a hefty price.
If someone did not want to incorporate a Russound solution, they could simply ala carte some of these options by incorporating say a matrix speaker/zone selector and custom IR distribution methodology. As you can see, this represents a lot more work and investigation/integration than a "canned" system.
So again, these decisions can NOT be lumped into a "package A" or "package B" without considering all the facts mentioned above.
Of course, this is the beauty and strength of this board. To my knowledge we have never censored nor edited ANY post that is related to any of these topics (and we had to stretch that "related to" at times
)!In other words, everyone should feel free to suggest any methodology as it will only benefit our forum membership in the end! We also look towards the experienced forum members with particular systems to help out our newer members!
Regards,
BSR
Is there a good source for hardwired/homerun panels and relays that the DIYer can purchase through the internet? Is centralite the only manufacture of central panels with dimmer relays? Are the leviton Z-Max panels a viable cost effective option? Are they available to the DIYer? Does anyone know of a site that discusses details of particular installations? What about equipment cost comparisons between hardwired (say 36 loads) vs. using UPB?
Right now, I seem to have a whole lot more questions than answers.
Right now, I seem to have a whole lot more questions than answers.
timmetro69
New Member
BSR - Totally agree with you. I come to this board to learn and to see what others are doing. Even though the HAI products I use aren't discussed much here, it's still very informative to hear what others are doing in the HA world.BraveSirRobbin said:
I really enjoy the site and look forward to participating in the future.
- Tim
