New home, some specifics now

PS--In an area this rural, we need either a whole-house UPS or a generator.  Power _shouldn't_ be an issue.
 
PS--In an area this rural, we need either a whole-house UPS or a generator.  Power _shouldn't_ be an issue.
 
The larger concern is how secure you believe you need to be.  In my mind, reliance on power (generator or grid) seems like a pretty obvious vulnerability.  I assume some security systems would be harder to disable.
 
power is probably a bigger issue for you - if you need power on to open/close doors for you then you need a whole house generator; then a UPS on the computers to keep them online while the generator kicks on.
 
BTW - The newest yearly 2014 Consumer Reports "Buying guide issue" rates the stationary Kohler higher than the Generac whole house generators.
 
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/generators/buying-guide.htm
 
Here have an HAI OPII panel(s).  (2).  They work fine for me.  That said they have a smaller footprint than the Elk.  The Elk is a great panel.
 
I don't really touch the panel.  I have the serial ports maxed out on the OPII panel.
 
I've been using Homeseer since 1998.  Today the main software "mothership" is running on Wintel.  It has some 20 serial connections and 7 USB connections plus a few virtual device connections.
 
The software automation and hardware compliment each other.
 
I am testing the new Homeseer on Linux; both lite and heavy versions. 
 
I have always had linux boxes around; but I don't notice them anymore because I don't need to touch them; they just work.
 
My simplest touchscreen consoles are wired via serial connections to the panel.  My more complex consoles talk to the panel via IP (mostly wired but also wireless).  They run on Wintel (and or embedded), Linux and Android.  Phone PDA connectivity started in the late 1990's with Palm, and MS Mobile.  Today its still Wintel and Android.
 
I have consoles connected to both the HAI OPII panel and the Homeseer software.  I still also utilize tiny wireless multiple button things with single purpose events triggered per a wireless command.  I won't talk to my computers but have played with VR for many years.  I shut it off in my cars because it annoyed me. 
 
I am in a mode (curmudgeon) lately to take from the cloud and not give anything to the cloud or depend on the "cloud" for any sort of automation/security.  
 
I prefer wired over wireless for automation stuff.  (that is me).
 
I don't mind changing batteries on wireless stuff; but it would get out of hand if I had 30-40 wireless battery things that I had to maintain.
 
The choices are yours relating to what you are most comfortable with using; learning curves, inert knowledge base type stuff.
 
I am biased because it is a hobby for me.
 
Tessa said:
f I need Windows software on MY computer to control the automation system, it would never happen.
 
I hear you.... I converted years ago from Windows and (almost) never look back. But there is the occasional thing.... that one time use. For example TurboTax is my main tax filing system and I need Windows. Here is my work around: 
  1. A huge number of programs run fine under WINE. Check out if you can use WINE to install your Windows programs. I use SketchUp from Google a lot and it works really nice under WINE. 
  2. Some programs do not work sufficient  under WINE, TurboTax for example. For these rare instances I have an Oracle VirtualBox installed. This works extremely well on Linux. You can install a Windows OS and run it in a 'window' where it belongs. 
Hope this helps!
 
Also, just a clarification about Windows and ElkRP... You use RP to set up the Elk and then turn it off - possibly for many months. I might fire it up every 2-3 months to fiddle with something I want to tweak, but it is NOT an interface you use every day. Your tablet / phone can be used for that, running an Android app.
 
You're not going to like what I'd recommend, but part of what I'd suggest looking into would be the OEM Andersen windows with 5800 series RF. That will give you lock status and open/closed status, but will also have some maintenance and possible obsolescence.
 
Frankly, I'd be looking at a far larger system to work into the smaller subsystems and controls, and it's not going to be DIY.
 
Maybe I'm spoiled, but Crestron comes to mind...or server/client based would get me to SWH or Linel and do access control/security integrated into that platform independently.
 
You do realize you're well into 6 digits for your "want's" list, right?
 
Thank you for all of the responses!
 
Just to check; I did have quite a few questions in there, and some are getting overlooked.  Is it okay to start multiple shorter threads?  On most forums where I've participated, that's considered rather rude.
 
~ ~ ~
 
Reading through what everyone has said, it's clear that there are a lot of different views and approaches to automation.  I can see that I need to back WAY up and start over.
 
We don't HAVE to have anything automated.  (It will be nice, and helpful, but not necessary.  Yet.  I can continue to do as I currently do, and just ignore the things I can't do when I'm home alone.)   We plan to have manual, unpowered alternatives for all the automation.  I assume the house will start with no automation at all, just whatever wiring and sensors we put in place during building.
 

Madcodger said:
Basic functions like breathing, heart rate, etc., (your security, HVAC, basic lighting control) are best handled by the very basic but very reliable "brain stem". You may get knocked out, but those things normally continue to function and keep you alive.
 
These sorts of things are only even ON my "goal" list because I assumed they were more well established, and would be pretty easy.  (Finding workarounds for Windows?  NOT "easy.")  Lights and thermostat can be adjusted by hand; if I can't get up to adjust them, they can safely stay at any particular setting.  I'd like to be able to verify that I really did shut and lock X door, but that's also a convenience, not a safety measure.  If it can safely be ignored when I'm not well, it's not as important.
 
I see automation as something we can use to make life more..."normal"...for someone who has a lot of physical limitations.  Ease the things that hurt.  Do the things I can't.  Safeties in place in case something happens and I can't turn something on or  off the way I should. 
 
Also, something to fiddle with on days when I am in too much pain to do anything but lay still.
 
~ ~ ~
 
I thought that starting with lights, thermostat, door contacts, established stuff, would help me learn about automation, and help me set up a structure for using everything else.  If they're on a _separate_ system and I have to learn two totally different setups to get these working?  I may never bother.   I'd be disappointed, but not crushed.  The other things are the priorities.
 
~ ~ ~
 
My automation priorities are things that:
* I *can't* physically do (or might not be able to do), that also
* might endanger me or the property. 
 
I can't go shut off the oven, if I've passed out, woken up with a massive syncope-headache, and can't move.  [I don't cook when I'm home alone.  Safety shutoffs would help.]
 
I can't go shut off the water when it gets below freezing, if I am having a tachycardia episode and can't get up.  [Remotely-controlled water valves in the well house would do the trick.]
 
If I am having a bad pain day, I can't go outside to check who's at the gate without making it obvious that I am home, possibly alone, and that I am impaired.  [I often don't go outside on bad pain days.  Our current home isn't fully fenced.  The gate setup I want would solve all of this.  ~ ~ It would also enable me to drive right in when I get home--which is the reason we're not currently fully fenced.  When I do go out, by the time I get home, I can't get out, open a gate, drive through, close a gate, and finish driving to the house.  I can barely make it from the car to the house.]
 
When it's too hot out for me to tolerate, I can't take a walk around the farm to reassure myself that all is well.  (Videocameras would help with that.)
 
~ ~ ~
 
I futz with stationary things--software, settings, writing, designing devices to make life easier, etc--when I hurt too much to do anything else.  I think automation software and configuration will fit right into my "bad days" activities.  This is a long-term project, something to lay the groundwork now and develop as I am able.  (I also like things to be "just right," and will tweak minor details endlessly and with great delight.)
 
On good days, if I have time, I go out and *build* the devices that I came up with on the bad days.  As I have "spare" good days, I'll work on more automation hardware (mounting videocameras, etc).
 

Madcodger said:
You use RP to set up the Elk and then turn it off - possibly for many months.
 
So what I'm saying is: I'm not going to put any system into place and leave it alone for months.  I'm going to play with it ALL THE TIME.  All of it.  Everything.  I have a lot of bad days, and this will be a great project to keep my mind off the pain.
 
And I need to be able to do that from my primary computer, the linux laptop. 
 
And then, when it is in place, I need to be able to check on it with my Android smartphone when I happen to be away from home.
 
(Please, please, let's not go into trying to run Windows software *on* a linux machine. Let's just not go there. If I can set up a Windows server to handle the settings controls, and then run some sort of remote desktop on it from my linux box, that's different. But I've been linux-only for long enough that I don't know if that's feasible.

If something requires that I *sit* at a Windows machine, it won't happen.

And good grief, a majority of the system's goals are for checking up on the house remotely. If I am out, and just want to make sure the doors are locked, I want a simple and easy way to do that. But, for example, ELK tells me that in order to check my home system from outside, I have to have access--wherever I am--at an internet-capable Windows box with proprietary Windows software. WINE on my home linux box is not exactly a solution to obfuscated remote access.)
 
DELInstallations said:
You're not going to like what I'd recommend, but part of what I'd suggest looking into would be the OEM Andersen windows with 5800 series RF. That will give you lock status and open/closed status, but will also have some maintenance and possible obsolescence.
.
I beg your pardon for my ignorance, but why won't I like this?
.
DELInstallations said:
Frankly, I'd be looking at a far larger system to work into the smaller subsystems and controls, and it's not going to be DIY.
.
Oh. Gosh. We're more than willing to consider non-DIY. We'd *rather* have a lot of it non-DIY. It's just that the consultants we've spoken to so far know less about automation than I do. If you've been reading my comments on this thread, you're aware that I know nearly nothing. It's daunting to find that the local "automation experts" know even less than that.

I mean, this one group is supposed to have multiple certifications including ELK, which is what they wanted to put in, and why I have looked into it fairly thoroughly. They didn't even *know* that, for example, ELK systems could put a "Keypad, Input Expander and Output Expander" in outbuildings. I got that info during the conversation with the nice ELK tech, who told me was their solution to outbuildings. (The same email conversation convinced me that their dependence on Windows made ELK totally unsuitable for my purposes. Great technical responsiveness, great customer service communication, just no way for me to futz with it constantly--and to easily access it remotely.)

(So it's clear there are ways to do outbuildings, right? I just don't know the right terminology. Expanders? Relays? Sub-systems?)

I need to know what to buy, who to talk to, where to find them. This is worse than finding a trustworthy mechanic who CAN actually fix your car, and who won't charge you to replace a radiator when all you needed was a hose clamp. (I am looking up Crestron, SWH, and Linel, thank you.)

And hey, I am pretty sure we can DIY *some* of it. There are a lot of parts I'd much rather have someone else do.
.
DELInstallations said:
You do realize you're well into 6 digits for your "want's" list, right?
.
Oh, sure. You did see the "probably decades long project" part, right? And some of it may never happen the way I want it to. "You can't always get what you want." I know. We don't always meet our goals. Hey, I want to be able to do the work I used to love (before my body totally blew up on me); that's a goal I'm never going to meet.

A lot of this will be difficult to do right now. Cost, availability, software, hardware, there are a lot of factors that make some of this inaccessible as yet. Hey, this is a long, long term project. ...it's not like *I* am going to get better. But hardware and software will, and so will prices.

I'm trying to work out what IS available now, and what I need to do now for future efforts.

* What should we do while the house is being built?
* ...what don't I *know*, that I am not able to work out these things on my own? What terms don't I know? Where do I look for general and specific hardware?
* What do I need to put into place now, so that I can achieve other goals as the hardware or software becomes available?
* Are some of my guesses and assumptions valid, or is there some reason they won't work?
 
Distance for the M1 is going to be your issue.
 
You can only run 4000' total end to end on the 485 bus, so multiple outbuildings is going to be an issue unless the topology and OAL is considered. I can't remember if the 4K footage includes or excludes the need for an return path (out and back) for the data off the top of my head.
 
Using Honeywell's 5800 series OEM Andersen windows...well, that assumes the 5800 series and protocol doesn't become obsolete at any time and that service spares are not needed.
 
I could do all of what you're looking at but the other limiting factor is going to be Linux. Not many systems I know of and deal with use it for anything but an embedded OS. The wiring is going to be the largest item...it needs to be installed and certified while the building is happening.
 
You're really starting to get into the commercial controls realm with your want list, but again, the limiting factors are going to be the OS and the mobile platforms until they really proliferate the other side of the coin. You're going to need to take it a building at a time and really get them talking and the components in place first. My first leaning would be to get into a system that can interface and speak BACnet.
 
You do not have to sit in front of a Windos Box, run them in your current Linux environment. I run MINT 15 right now. 
 
See below, Sketchup runs naturally in WINE and the Windows runs in VirtualBox in its own window (where it belongs...).
 
Screenshot.jpg
 
tonti said:
You do not have to sit in front of a Windos Box, run them in your current Linux environment. I run MINT 15 right now. 
 
See below, Sketchup runs naturally in WINE and the Windows runs in VirtualBox in its own window (where it belongs...).
Yes I agree that the conscientious objection to windows is a bit overblown.
 
az1324 said:
Yes I agree that the conscientious objection to windows is a bit overblown.
Snerk. Conscientious?

I don't CARE abut having a Windows box in my house. We can do that.

We can even do initial setup on a Windows box, and keep one running 24/7. No problem.

All I require is that I be able to manipulate my settings on day-to-day basis, somehow, from a vanilla linux interface. Somehow. Let's not go into trying to run Windows proprietary software on linux machines. I *did* say
Tessa said:
"Please."
 
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