New to home automation, need help

[johntarr]

Hello all,
I'm new to home automation and would like to know where to start.
I would like to get started with some basics, such as lighting control, and then add on from there.
Eventually, I would like to be able to control the garage door, chime when doors are opened, control the sprinkler system, etc.

I've been looking around online for awhile now, but there seem to be alot of options.
I'm assuming that for advanced logic (i.e. don't turn on the sprinklers if it has been raining), you will need software based controls?
Also, I'm not sure which technology to base the system around (Insteon, Z-wave, etc).

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
John

 

[IVB]

Welcome to Cocoon, plenty of answers here.

Thing is, you've got plenty of loaded questions, and a lot of it is based on what type of approach you prefer (hardware vs software control, off-the-shelf but perhaps not a perfect fit vs custom-build so longer setup but custom-fit).

You don't *need* software control for advanced logic, but between something like the Elk (hardware) and CQC(software), you'd be able to cover most of the known universe for device control and logic capabilities, so you'd be set. Then, the only decision is where you want to put the rules (hardware or software), no right answer there, only whichever one makes sense to you and which place offers the type of control you're looking for.

For technology, again it's what your preference is. PowerLine Control = UPB. RF control=zWave. Hardwired Control (always go wired if you can) = variety of options, based on price point.

I wrote up my personal guide here, it's the powerpoint for the first 30 minutes of the "Intro to HA" webinar that I do every so often, there's a recording of it available in my sig. It's not the only path you have by any stretch, but it is the one I chose so it's the only one I feel comfortable talking about.

 

[johntarr]

Thanks for the quick reply.
I will look at that webinar when I get a chance.

I'm leaning toward software control for several reasons: 1) I'm a developer 2) It sounds like it should be easier to configure 3) Should be more dynamic.
I guess the only problem with that approach is that if you want to wire in something that isn't standard (i.e. distance detection that was mentioned in the water softener mod), you would need some way to interface that with the software you use.

I will be looking at powerline or RF. I don't like running wires, and from what I understand, RF should be just as reliable? Also, I believe that z-wave sends acknowledgments when it receives a signal?

I would like to go with something that works off the shelf for now so that I can get in a few wins, but long term, I would like to get into more detail and do things like be able to monitor the level of salt in my water softener.

 

[IVB]

I use zWave, works fine. Yes, it sends an ack when it receives a signal.

If you're a developer, NetRemote/Girder has come a long way in the past year, and is at a great price point. You may want to check that out.

 

[FrankMc]

Hi John

Since your a developer maybe have a look at xPL (free HA software)

Heres a couple of links

This ones a z wave link
http://www.xplmonkey.com/zwave.html

This ones a UPB link

http://www.xpl4java.org/UPB4Java/

HTH
Frank

 

[upstatemike]

I will be looking at powerline or RF. I don't like running wires, and from what I understand, RF should be just as reliable? Also, I believe that z-wave sends acknowledgments when it receives a signal?

I have been hoping a wirephobe would join at some point! I would really be interested to see how far somebody could go with automation if their goal was to do as little wiring as possible... I'm thinking Z-Wave for lighting, Sonos for whole house music, maybe SageTV over WiFi for video, and of course all wireless sensors for security, fire, motion, etc.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I will be looking at powerline or RF. I don't like running wires, and from what I understand, RF should be just as reliable? Also, I believe that z-wave sends acknowledgments when it receives a signal?

I have been hoping a wirephobe would join at some point! I would really be interested to see how far somebody could go with automation if their goal was to do as little wiring as possible... I'm thinking Z-Wave for lighting, Sonos for whole house music, maybe SageTV over WiFi for video, and of course all wireless sensors for security, fire, motion, etc.

Are you the same upstatemike who earlier posted how he wants to live in an "RF Free" zone?!?!

 

[johntarr]

I appreciate all of the replies.

I did have one follow up question. If you go with a system such as z-wave devices, but you want to add on non-standard items (maybe pressure sensors, door open/closed circuits, or anything non z-wave compliant), how would you do so? Would that require everything run to a hardware box that centralizes your Z-wave devices and your other devices? Or is there any way to do that with software only?

As far as wires go, I hate running them, and would love to get rid of as many as possible. If not for resale value, I would rip all of the telephone wires out of my home and plaster over the holes in the wall.

Having said that, given the choice between a sleek or concealed wired device vs a bulky RF device, the wired device wins every time. For instance, I would like to keep my current door contact switches, as they are wired into the top of the door. I don't like the wireless boxes that sit on your door and frame.

 

[upstatemike]

I will be looking at powerline or RF. I don't like running wires, and from what I understand, RF should be just as reliable? Also, I believe that z-wave sends acknowledgments when it receives a signal?

I have been hoping a wirephobe would join at some point! I would really be interested to see how far somebody could go with automation if their goal was to do as little wiring as possible... I'm thinking Z-Wave for lighting, Sonos for whole house music, maybe SageTV over WiFi for video, and of course all wireless sensors for security, fire, motion, etc.

Are you the same upstatemike who earlier posted how he wants to live in an "RF Free" zone?!?!

I'm not saying I ever want to do this. I am just curious how far you can take the wireless paradigm and have it be reliable so I'd like to see somebody try a total wireless system. Ignoring the health and security questions for a moment, will the laws of physics allow the peaceful coexistance of a typical HA system if it was all based on wireless stuff? Lets assume:

100 Z-Wave switches
50 wireless security contacts
8 Sonos music zones
2 cell phones
8 wireless motion detectors
4 WiFi connected PCs or servers
4 WiFi connected SageTV setups (better be using 802.11n+++)
wireless weather station
wirless mailbox alert
wireless garage door openers
RFID?
wireless intercoms
various wireless media center learning remotes or wireless UMPC touch screens
etc.

Will it all be rock solid? Or will changing the channel on the TV cause the garage door to open and the fire alarm to go off? I just think it would be a cool thing for someone (not me) to try.

 

[IVB]

Will it all be rock solid? Or will changing the channel on the TV cause the garage door to open and the fire alarm to go off?

I'm thinking that test is all but done (for me), and it's been nothing short of a collosal failure.

For the OP - you might not know this, but i've had issues with wireless security sensors (i'm ripping them all out now, putting in hardwired) and typically 1 of the 20ish zWave devices I have is usually "out of contact" for a split second every little bit (the specific one varies).

I've got a lot of competition for the wireless spectrum though, I think I need to move (back) to upstate NY to cleanse our bodies:
- my house is 10' back from street, there's 15' between houses. High Density
- I live in NorCal, which is tech-heaven. High gadget density
- 20ish zWave devices
- overhead power lines
- 5 different wireless networks visible from any point in my house
- 1 Baby monitor for us, 2 neighbors have them and we occasionally get crossover (never any juicy gossip thought, damnit)
- 2 cellphones for me/wife, infinite # in the neighborhood
- rfID tags
- Infinite # of cordless telephones
- Hugely solid wood house (Plaster/Lathe walls & ceilings, stucco exterior, 2x6 and 2x8 joists, 4" subfloors - it was built in 1911 before all the newfangled technology) killing all

 

[TeleFragger]

- 1 Baby monitor for us, 2 neighbors have them and we occasionally get crossover (never any juicy gossip thought, damnit)

but they maybe getting some good gossip though!!!!!

 

[123]

100 Z-Wave switches
50 wireless security contacts
8 Sonos music zones
2 cell phones
8 wireless motion detectors
4 WiFi connected PCs or servers
4 WiFi connected SageTV setups (better be using 802.11n+++)
wireless weather station
wirless mailbox alert
wireless garage door openers
RFID?
wireless intercoms
various wireless media center learning remotes or wireless UMPC touch screens
etc.

Yeah baby! I want glasses that let me see RF!

On second thought, maybe I don't want to see the enormous amount of EM energy I'm subjected to ...

 

[linuxha]

I use zWave, works fine. Yes, it sends an ack when it receives a signal.

IVB, are you using Z-Wave with tht Elk? Does the Z-Wave interface see things like manual switch usage and remote buttons being pushed? What I mean by that if the remote turns on a lamp will the Elk know about it?

Thanks

 

[linuxha]

Will it all be rock solid? Or will changing the channel on the TV cause the garage door to open and the fire alarm to go off?

I'm thinking that test is all but done (for me), and it's been nothing short of a collosal failure.

For the OP - you might not know this, but i've had issues with wireless security sensors (i'm ripping them all out now, putting in hardwired) and typically 1 of the 20ish zWave devices I have is usually "out of contact" for a split second every little bit (the specific one varies).

I've been having trouble with Z-Wave that's only >10 feet away. Several times a day it looses contact with the device. It still works I just see a lot of errors when polling the device. I have one remote, one interface and one lamp module.

I've got a lot of competition for the wireless spectrum though, I think I need to move (back) to upstate NY to cleanse our bodies:
- my house is 10' back from street, there's 15' between houses. High Density
- I live in NorCal, which is tech-heaven. High gadget density
- 20ish zWave devices
- overhead power lines
- 5 different wireless networks visible from any point in my house
- 1 Baby monitor for us, 2 neighbors have them and we occasionally get crossover (never any juicy gossip thought, damnit)
- 2 cellphones for me/wife, infinite # in the neighborhood
- rfID tags
- Infinite # of cordless telephones
- Hugely solid wood house (Plaster/Lathe walls & ceilings, stucco exterior, 2x6 and 2x8 joists, 4" subfloors - it was built in 1911 before all the newfangled technology) killing all

I was wondering when we'd start to see something like this. In the area where I live there are 20 WiFi hot spots that I can pick up from my home. From my AP to my laptop (50 ft, wood and chalkboard) I can only get a signal strength of 35%. Too bad for all those N users that the B users are killing their speed. BTW, I'm not on the default channel 6.

BTW, our nice DECT 2.0 phone also has trouble keeping a connection but only on the ringing portion once the call is connected it works fine.

 

[linuxha]

I wrote up my personal guide here, it's the powerpoint for the first 30 minutes of the "Intro to HA" webinar that I do every so often, there's a recording of it available in my sig. It's not the only path you have by any stretch, but it is the one I chose so it's the only one I feel comfortable talking about.

Here's my definition of HA (there seems to be many) which was derived from the Wiki definition of Home_automation:

Home Automation (or Domotics) is automation specific to the requirements of private residences. It applies techniques for the comfort, security, entertainment and communications needs of it's residents.

In simplest terms it is control and monitoring of devices and information.

I think that works quite well.


BTW, we seem to think along the same line, though I'm using Misterhouse (I like to program) but i don't do Windows.