Nowplaying 2005

Well its been awhile since I touched Now Playing but I recently installed all new Switchlinc switches in the house so I added some buttons to the light control panel using the latest designer. I had to fix a few problems coming from Tonto but all in all not too bad really.

Here is a screenshot of the design.

John
 

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Well I have added this Jukebox theme to my Now Playing project. The center has several popup panels for showing queu, bio,lyrics and track history.

John
 

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Well, after playing with Netremote for the weekend, I can appreciate even more now how much work went into that interface. Not that NetRemote is difficult to learn, it's just that there is so much you can do ;) Great job!
 
jwilson56 said:
Thanks for the "bump"; without it I wouldn't have seen the fascinating thread.

I just posted a request for help/suggestions re "speakers" in the A/V area and would appreciate any of your thoughts.

In particular, with re to your home brew using 200 watt technics? amps throughout, do I have the idea basically right? That is, are you distributing throughout the house via digital (ethernet??) and thus minimizing speaker wire runs and maximizing robustness and flexibility?

I am not much of a "hands on" kind of guy and I really don't understand yet the function/tradeoffs in many of your components, but it seems that what you have put together might be *better* than Russound in most regards (except, perhapse, esthetics??)

How hard would it be for a relative newbie to learn enough to do what you did? (Or is this like Calculus III, requiring prerequisites)
 
Actually the receivers are centrally located and controlled via IR. The speaker wires are run to each zone. I have different types of speakers for each zone. Some in-wall BIC speakers and some bookshelf. My main system is a Sony ES receiver and uses Polk speakers.

John
 
jwilson56 said:
Well I decided to add some information as to how my whole house audio is designed. I originally started with the idea of having a single amp and use LPADS in each room. What I came up with was as cheap and offered much more features and felt it was the best solution for the money long term.

The problem with using a single receiver to drive multiple speakers are numerous. First you will have to have a way of impediance matching the speakers to your receiver. I seriously looked at devices like the HACS AB8SS but those cost quite a bit more money and you still will have to have some way of adjusting the volume in each room that you have your speakers in. For that you could use a manual or IR controlled LPAD mounted in the wall. Remember that this LPAD has to dissapate the wattage your driving so plan on it getting HOT. In researching LPADS I have read of many horror stories of people having them melt down in the walls. I also would be faced with all the work of mounting them and running the wires. A decent LPAD can run you $50-$100 each for manual control and double that for IR control.

I had no doubt that the 220 watt RMS receiver I currently had would drive all the speakers so power was not an issue. My original setup would share a single 400 disc CD changer over multiple zones so again using a single receiver would work quite well. Again what had a big impact on my decision was the cost of the LPADS that I would need to purchase.

After weighing all those ideas (and trust me I was planning on going that route at first) I decided to take a different approach. First I live in a home that has wet plaster walls and its a real pain to mount anything in the walls so I was not looking forward to LPADS in each room anyways. I also wanted IR control so that I could use a touch screen and Homeseer to control it down the road. That meant spending big bucks on the speaker switcher/impedience matcher and all the IR controlled LPADS.

What I came up with ended up costing much less and really being much less work. I decided to purchase a Technics 200 watt stereo receiver for each additional room that I wanted to put a 'zone' in. So keeping my main Hometheatre system as the main 'zone' I purchased 4 extra receivers. Each receiver is IR controllable from Homeseer and can be powered on&off seperately. Each zone then has its own volume, power, mute, bass & treble controls. Since the wiring came down to running speaker wires from the 4 aux zones to each of the rooms it was much easier as I had no LPADS to buy or install. Each room has its own 200 watts RMS so there is no chance of a melt down. Once I chose the model of receiver I looked on Ebay and bought 4 receivers at an average cost of $50 each. Thats less than the 4 manual LPADS I would have had to buy. All four receivers are close to my HS server and are out of site. No need to have them visible when you can control them remotely with IR control.

Now with 5 seperate receivers it opened up a few options. Each zone had its own tuner so that was a bonus. When I first did this I shared a 400 Disc CD changer for all 5 zones. I have since went to a hard drive solution that enabled me to really endulge by having 5 distinct zones. Using the M-Audio 410 PCI Sound Cards that has 10 channels I am able to have a 5 zone setup with audiophile specifications.
I use the built in sound card for my HS voices and everything works well together. All the receivers are controlled via this Now Playing GUI interface done using Netremote/JRMC/HS/hsGirder/Slink-e. Some people have asked about the Slink-e and why I used it. First I already had it to control my CD changer and second it has 8 independant IR zones. The IR zones need to be indepenant due to the fact that I am using the same receiver for 4 of the 'zones'. One way around this would be to use different model receivers for each zone or use an Ocelot with the IR module to get the indendant IR zones.

Every day I sit down at my PC in the den and using my Now Playing GUI front end I have access to over 650 CD's, internet radio stations, and 10 preset FM local stations. My wife can play what she likes in the living room, bedroom or kitchen and I play what I like. With 1300 Watts RMS total available I have no worries about heat or clipping the amplifiers and destroying the speakers. I also have to say it all sounds quite nice.

I am sure this is more than most of you would think starting down a whole house audio setup. I just wanted to share a glimpz of what you could do for about the same cost and a lot less work and risk. .

John

Below is a diagram of my design (needs to be updated).

With this design I implemented a hardware based synching option that lets you play the same CD in more than one zone but still allows you to play yet another in another zone.
Okay. Is there any particular advantage to having the different receivers close together? Couldn't you also have put one in each room if you had space, etc? (It occurs to me that you might have had some IR control constraint that forced the issue?)

What I'm thinking of (one of the advantages of gross ignorance is that one is free to think of all manner of things precluded by experience and/or reality) that if I could digitally distribute content down to each receiver then I would have more future flexibility and wouldn't need really long runs of speaker wire...which probably won't get things right for the future and may not even get them optimal for now. This is the whole idea of pushing things as far down the line as you can without losing control or ballooning cost....

It seems to my naive brain that the future clearly points to an optimum topology for AV systems where the content is distributed digitally to each zone (if not each speaker). I can't think of a current advantage with current topologies, other than cost/feasiblity. The fact that this isn't considered cost effective now (per all the audio gurus I've talked to in my local high-end AV stores) doesn't mean it isn't a better solution in theory.

It seems that you are almost there now. What am I missing?
 
tanstaaf - it is theoretically possible to implement your system as described. However, I chose not to for a couple reasons:
- I can hide my equipment. I get awesome sound and no electronics to be seen anywhere. Components are controlled via IR (remotes or keypads)
- the speaker runs aren't that long (if you have a centrally located control room) that there is no degredation of sound. I run 1 wire (4 speaker wires together) to the room to a volume control knob (if multiple rooms in a zone), and from there run to my sub outlet panel, and then run 2 wire speaker wire to each speaker. If I distribute the amps - it didn't save me any wire - I wire to the amp (which I now need to find a spot for), then to sub panel and to speakers. Maybe a small cost savings of CAT5 wire versus speaker wire, but I doubt it's much...
- I can share sources easily since they are all right there. If you distribute your amps, suppose you realize in the future you need to upgrade something for a new source type (or add 1 more source than you wired for). If amps are all centrally located, there is no additional wiring required.
- I wouldn't want music on my home network. I would have to create a seperate network to distribute music. If I (or my kids) are playing a video game on the WAN, last thing we want is it to slow down because of the music bandwidth on the LAN.

What is the advantage of distributing the amps? I can't see any...
 
bfisher said:
- I wouldn't want music on my home network. I would have to create a seperate network to distribute music. If I (or my kids) are playing a video game on the WAN, last thing we want is it to slow down because of the music bandwidth on the LAN.
assuming you're running a typical 100 mbps network, music is not going to interfere with your online gaming. your internet connection is probably around 1 mbps, maybe at the most 6 mbps? you still have well over 90% of your bandwidth left. and most networked games are well optimized to reduce their bandwidth requirements (because not all gamers have fat pipes to their house) so you're not going to be using up all your internet bandwidth anyway. if your mp3s are encoded at 320 kbps then you're still going to have plenty of bandwidth for many, many streams of mp3s.
 
Please take this topic to its own thread. This thread is about Now Playing. If you want to discuss it then feel free. If you want to discuss other ways to multi-zone then please start a new thread.

Thanks

John
 
I just wanted to mention that my setup uses J Rivers Media Center player/database that supports true distinct multiple zones. I also use a lossless format called APE. It has about a 50% compression rate. My old setup used a CD changer and mp3 files (I ran out of room in the 400 disk changer). Trust me even at higher sample rates mp3 quality is not good enogh for home audio use. Its great for walkmans and cars but you will hear a huge difference in quality on a good audio system.

If you want elivator background music then I suppose it would be ok. I realy wanted to try and create a higher quality music setup.

John
 
How does it achieve 50% compression while staying lossless? That's pretty impressive, I'll have to do some research. Can you post a typical filesize for let's say a 3 minute (Radio Edit) song? How long did it take to rip your CD's ?
 
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