'Old Work'/Retrofit Low Voltage Boxes - Preferences?

[JohnTree]

I'm in the late stages of negotiation on buying my first house, and if everything goes through one of the first things I'll be doing is running some Cat6 cable through the attic and in the walls. Probably won't start off with a full home-run setup (can't justify all of the effort given my limited equipment/usage) and will just go point-to-point between the spare bedroom/office with my PC/router and the living room for my TiVoHD & Blu-Ray player (plus create a second interface to my PC in the living room using a DVI & USB-over-Ethernet interface: http://www.networktechinc.com/usbc5-dvi.html ).

So I started looking into the process of running the cables, and got tripped up on how exactly you get the punchdown jacks & faceplates to fit/stay in the walls. After wandering the aisles of my local Home Depot, I found several options, and was wondering if these were the recommended approached from the folks here - and if the pros/cons I'm seeing match up with real-life experience.

The first thing I found was this - Plastic Old Work Low Voltage Bracket/Box: It is a orange plastic bracket that fits into the opening cut into the drywall, and is secured using two methods: 1) a set of swing arms that pivot behind the bracket and are snugged down with integrated screws, biting into the drywall from behind; 2) drywall screws [not included] that screw into the top & bottom holes directly into the drywall.

On a different aisle, I found this - Leviton Metal Old Work Low Voltage Bracket: It is a thin metal bracket that also fits into the opening cut into the drywall, but is secured using a different method: the metal 'tabs' at the top and bottom are bent back to capture the drywall and hold the bracket in place; and then drywall screws are screwed into the top & bottom directly into the drywall.

At first glance, it appears that the plastic bracket makes more sense - it is more rigid, it has more mechanical advantage in gripping the drywall, it can be removed & replaced, and is non-conductive. However, the metal bracket has one distinct advantage: it takes up less space (has less material).

Could some folks who have done retrofit work chime in as to their preference/experience with these? Or, if not these, what they use instead (a full box, etc.)? I'd like to get started thinking this through in advance, so I don't get caught out late in the game. Thanks.

 

[pete_c]

I've used both.

Leviton Metal Old Work Low Voltage Bracket

I use the metal brackets for exteriorly mounted speakers / keystone terminal jacks. (family room surround sound / garage speakers). I like that they are thin and its easy to put a plastic cover on them flush to the wall.

Plastic Old Work Low Voltage Bracket/Box

I've used single, double and triple size gang boxes (many times with plastic boxes) for LV say for Russound controls. The problems I have with the plastic ones is the thickness of the plastic. Even though its flush you have to purchase a deep cover such that the cover fits flush to the wall. I sometimes have had issues finding covers that will work; so lately have been cutting some of the interior plastic (or sanding) the part where the screw holes are so that the cover plate fits flush. I have a similiar issue with the plastic pieces to the SA/PCS UPB switches versus the metal plate HAI switches which are a bit more flush (mounting on metal mudplates / metal double gang boxes).

The cost of the thinner metal LV brackets is much less than the plastic brackets that I have used. I think I purchased these in bulk for way less than a dollar (.25 each) a piece versus the plastic ones at more than a dollar a piece (about $1 each). I've only purchased these at the big box stores if I needed to do something right away. Do a quick search on the internet and you'll find both of these types for much less than Home Depot.

 

[Photon]

I like the plastic ones with their flip-out wings. I try to avoid anything that leaves the pointy end of a drywall screw so close to my hole in the wall. I've found cable insulation cut by the screw tips, and I don't enjoy sticking my hand in there when I need to reach for a pull from above or below. It feels a bit like sticking one's hand in a shark's mouth. I learned to live with the slightly thicker flange on the plastic bracket.

 

[Neurorad]

If you tighten the retention wings on the LV brackets really well, the front face plate sinks into the front of the drywall, creating more of a flush install. I've never used drywall screws with my LV brackets, just used the wings.

Arlington offers LV brackets for shallow spaces, FWIW. If your drywall is hung on thin furring strips mounted to the concrete, these would be good.

I start the drywall cut with a small, 2" square hole, to definately locate the stud. And then I draw the cutting lines around the small hole, using the LV bracket small corner holes as a guide - I don't see the tiny holes on that orange bracket pictured above. One in each corner, for marking the corners of the cutout.

I use these, from HD, in single and double gang format

tiny hole in each corner; I think they're Carlon also

 

[pete_c]

I've utilized the plastic ones as mentioned above for all my light switch level LV stuff today and the metal ones carefully (with short screws) for some of the newer the higher mounted LV cutouts (external speakers in family room and IP cam in garage).

I've never tryed to tighten the plastic ones too much for fear that I would damage or crack the dryway instead have just trimmed the cover plates.

I guess its a metal thing. In FL for all the LV stuff I put metal mud plates everywhere before the walls went up and had the drywall cut for these.

I also used the newer all plastic multi-gang box inserts for LCD TV mounting and behind the MM center. I "found" the ones pictured at Menards after initially purchasing the one in the second picture.

I am not sure of the MFG but ended up purchasing these and double gang box plastic ones for LCDs in the house. (bought out their supply when I saw them - think they were like $10 each - I'll look for MFG)

These work well for behind an LCD TV.

 

[sda]

drywall screws [not included] that screw into the top & bottom holes directly into the drywall.

There's a good chance that if you put screws that close to an cut opening the drywall will blow out.

If you tighten the retention wings on the LV brackets really well, the front face plate sinks into the front of the drywall, creating more of a flush install.

And hopefully the cheap china drywall won't crumble as you do so.

For old work, I take an old work blue electrical box and cut about an inch off the back on the chop saw. After I cut the opening in the wall and test fit the box, to make it sit flush I take a small sharp knive knife that you can manipulate (i like my little swiss army), score the drywall texture around the ears, and peel out about 1/32 of an inch so, i.e. remove the paper layer and texture. This allows the ears to sit flush with the surface. Putting caulk around the edges will air seal it and bond it to the drywall.

 

[pete_c]

Sda,

I used those in FL for new LV stuff where there was no wires. I just punched out the backs but like the idea of cutting the entire back section off.

 

[mterry63]

I always use the metal low voltage plates. Clamp down the metal fold-over 'ears' with a pair of channel-lock pliers and they will be tight with no movement. No screws required. I've got a template made specifically to cut these with my rotozip.

 

[Steve]

I usually just use the Carlon plastic rings. Like them better than the Arlington. Never really had issues with plates.

 

[pete_c]

I've noticed the big box stores typically carry Leviton wall plates in the three sizes. Lately though have noticed that the deeper wall plates have small little plastic built in stand offs of sort. When installing this specific plate with the standoff and a new SA UPB switch with the plastic mount outside of the metal mud plate you have a slight protrustion of the entire wall switch cover. One fix I've done is a thinner mudplate and cutting the drywall such that the upper and lower piece of the light switch is flush or in the wall a bit. If I don't want to move the metal box or get a smaller metal mud ring I trim the inside standoff with a razor blade a bit such that it is flush with the rest of the wall plate interior. The Russound sound controls used both a thin plastic ring and foam insulation - even tighting didn't make the wall switch cover plate flush. So I did the same as above and also removed the plastic ring and foam insulation.

 

[fabriziojoe]

Check out Arlington Industries. I like the hole saw box. Drill a hole with a hole-saw and put in the box. You do not have to worry if the hole is level as it is now adjustable.
http://www.aifittings.com/videos/FD1RP.html

 

[nick_l]

The first thing I found was this - Plastic Old Work Low Voltage Bracket/Box: It is a orange plastic bracket that fits into the opening cut into the drywall, and is secured using two methods: 1) a set of swing arms that pivot behind the bracket and are snugged down with integrated screws, biting into the drywall from behind; 2) drywall screws [not included] that screw into the top & bottom holes directly into the drywall.

On a different aisle, I found this - Leviton Metal Old Work Low Voltage Bracket: It is a thin metal bracket that also fits into the opening cut into the drywall, but is secured using a different method: the metal 'tabs' at the top and bottom are bent back to capture the drywall and hold the bracket in place; and then drywall screws are screwed into the top & bottom directly into the drywall.

At first glance, it appears that the plastic bracket makes more sense - it is more rigid, it has more mechanical advantage in gripping the drywall, it can be removed & replaced, and is non-conductive. However, the metal bracket has one distinct advantage: it takes up less space (has less material).

Drywall or Plaster/lath? If Plaster then definitely plastic. If drywall then either would work. Personally I prefer the plastic versions as I never seem to bend the metal wings tightly enough to keep them from wiggling (plus, in my limited experience, I've found the edges have a tendency to be sharp).

 

[Vycor]

Im late to the game here but i do this stuff for a living...
Home Depot is where we buy our boxes usually, if not the distributor. They sell a few

They sell the orange in a bag (6 to a bag) then the orange you buy 1 at a time (or in a brown box), and the blue ones of course.

I prefer the orange ones you buy 1 at a time (or in the brown box). I DO NOT like the 6 pack you get in the clear packaging. I find they are more flimsy and harder to use.

Buy the orange ones for low voltage you get 1 at a time (or in a brown box, BROWN box, not clear plastic).

If you have facebook check out this video of me cutting out a low voltage plate. I have a cutout template (its a hard piece of plastic with a built in level that does single and double gang, got it at my local distribution house, you can also find them online). I also use a dremel makes quick work. Keyhole saws work, but i find the dremel is VERY fast... 1 minute from cutout to installation:

http://www.facebook.com/Vyc0r?v=app_239295...v=1212363784655