Open Collectors - How do you wire them?

[cestor]

Have you metered voltage between the A and - with the sensor in both normal and alarm states?
 
Is the power common with the panel?

Is the zone conductor landed on the HIGH and not COM of the panel?
 
No other EOLR is installed on the single zone conductor (only a single one should be landed at the panel besides the power pair).

Here are the voltage readings in the Not Ready state- it doesn't trigger using the above wiring :
9.83 between + and A
3.75 between - and A
 
re 'is the power common with the panel' - the + is from a +12v aux on the panel and the - is to aux ground on the panel.
 
I don't understand what you mean by the zone conductor being on HIGH not COM.
 
There is no other EOLR on that zone

 

[cestor]

I don't know what "71" means on your panel.  Voltage readings would be helpful.
 
Are you using the proper size EOLR as specified by your alarm panel?  Do you have the panel set up as normally open for that zone?  Were you making motion during the test that would trigger the detector?
 
I don't know what size resistor you are using, but your voltage should be something less than 12.  With 2200 ohm resistors on my Elk it gets 7.4 volts.  0 volts means you have a short which could be that the sensor is activated or that you actually have a short somewhere else, 12 or higher volts means you have a disconnected/broken wire, and something in between means that you are running through the eol resistor only (the sensor is not activated).  On a NO zone that middle value would be the "secure" or "ready" state.

resistor is 1k as per spec on panel- there is no way AFAIK to configure NO/NC for a zone other than through wiring in series (NC) or parallel (NO).
yes to motion!
 
voltage is per previous post.

 

[apostolakisl]

resistor is 1k as per spec on panel- there is no way AFAIK to configure NO/NC for a zone other than through wiring in series (NC) or parallel (NO).
yes to motion!
 
voltage is per previous post.

 
Using an EOLR, both NO and NC will report ready when they read 3.75v, plus or minus (using your resistor)
 
NO zone reports violated with 0 volts (shorted), while a NC violates with 12v (open circuit)
NO zone reports tamper with 12v (open circuit) while a NC is in tamper with 0v (short).
 
If your alarm panel differentiates between tamper and violated then you have to be able to configure NO and NC separate.
 
When you activate the motion sensor, it will short (0v), and this would be either violated or tamper depending on how it is setup.
 
And if you were holding the motion detector in your hand or moving around it while you were testing it, you would be in "short" condition.

 

[Del91574]

Your panel's zone has 2 possible connections, the HIGH reference and the COM reference in relation to electrical ground. The detector gets wired to the HIGH reference to ground. If you don't know which is which, meter out between COM (or AUX-) on the panel and the zone terminals.....if you're getting voltage, you found the HIGH side of the zone, 0V is the same as COM. Your field wiring is only going to have a single conductor coming back to the panel from the A terminal.....that's going to get landed on the HIGH side of the zone.
 
 
As alluded to, you need to know what is the "normal" state of the detector when secure and seeing no motion, NO or NC.....how they call it out in spec may or may not be with the relay energized, and in your case, with a foreign detector, you can't assume.
 
As far as what is the valid reading for a secure zone, I'd have to check my bench HAI, but you could verify by strapping out your zone with an EOLR and meter the "normal" voltage. Violated would be higher voltage and tamper would be 0V between screw terminals.

 

[cestor]

I metered the zone circuit on the panel and I get 3.75v.
 
The blue wire in the picture above goes to High and the Orange wire goes to Com which I believe is correct.
 
If I just put in an EOLR by itself in another zone, the reading is 2.12v

 

[Del91574]

Looked at the picture again....
 
Too many conductors landed for a 3 wire detector.
 
Why are you using this detector again? Is this installed in the US?
 
The item I'm looking at is the unit is NO and the A terminal pulls to ground upon alarm condition. This is opposite of how normal alarm systems work but try this:
 
R/B as normal, Orange to + (high) of OP and A terminal, EOLR between A and - at detector.

 

[cestor]

I'm actually not in the US and I wanted the detector as it was the only one I could find with the right coverage angle. Also, it looks quite unlike a normal external detector. 
 
I tried the suggestion above and I get 3.75v between A and -
 
The panel still reports 71 Not Ready for that zone.

 

[Del91574]

Electrically, per the specs for the manufacturer of the unit, it is correct.
 
The only thing I can say now is you might be looking at installing a relay at the panel to convert the open collector, as the loop voltage of the zone might be exceeding the pull up of the collector's rating. They can only sink so much to ground.
 
The unit would get wired as a NO sensor and should have no continuity between the A and COM terminals when secure. When in alarm, it should pull the A to COM on the PIR.]
 
You would need to meter this to verify, but there is something not kosher with how it is behaving.

 

[apostolakisl]

The only thing I can think is that there is some grounding issue.  The voltage that powers the unit and the voltage the runs through the zone both have to share the same neutral because of the design.  For my security system this is not a problem, but perhaps for yours it is.  I would expect that 3.7 volts at the panel should be read as "ready".
 
As mentioned, you can add a relay.  The PIR then turns the relay on/off and the zone loop opens and closes off of the relay contacts, which are now electrically isolated from the PIR.

 

[cestor]

I have tried something else that I think now works (I don't know enough to say why it works, but the panel seems to be happy with it...)
 
Red /Black normal.
Orange from high of OP (zone+) to A
Additional separate pair running from Zone+ to zone- through 1K EOLR
 
Thanks for all your suggestions.

 

[cestor]

By the way, if someone with more electronic understanding than me can explain why the above works, I would appreciate it.

 

[Del91574]

The A terminal pulls to ground on alarm condition, so that means that the circuit HIGH gets pulled directly to the panel COM on alarm condition (assuming the - is in fact common the entire time) negating the EOLR that is shorting out the zone.
 
Without me posting a drawing, it's no different that what was suggested with a single conductor and the EOLR jumping between a terminal and -.
 
Sounds like there is an external ground reference.