p212s DBH enrollment issues

[jon102034050]

Guess I've never really asked this b/c I thought it was too stupid of a question.  Does the plugin placement in the DBH have any correlation to the data bus address?  I think the answer to that is no, but never hurts to ask.  Also, I keep going back to the fact that both keypads work when plugged in, so it cant be an addressing problem, can it?

 

[mikefamig]

The physical location has no bearing on the matter. If one of the keypads is set ot address 3 then it would explain why it does not work with the p212s which is also set to three.

 

[RAL]

No, the address does not have to match the plug location on the DBH.  The DBH just provides wiring between the cables plugged into it.
 
If each keypad and the P212S is configured to a different address, then that leaves some sort of wiring problem as the cause.
 
If the wiring to keypad 2 has a problem on the return wires, then the entire data bus is probably not being terminated properly.  Even without proper termination, some devices still might work and others might not. 
 
Since your cable is short, and you'd rather not re-terminate it, I guess I would try the following things:
 
1. Look closely at the RJ45 to make sure all the wires are inserted all the way in to each pin, and are ordered correctly.
 
2. Re-crimp the RJ45 that is already there.  It might be that it just didn't get crimped with enough force to make a good, solid connection to all the wires.
 
3. Use a multimeter or cable tester to check for conductivity from one end of the cable to the other, and also for shorts between the conductors.
 
4. When you spliced the Cat5 to the keypad pigtail, did you get the color coding right?   Orange/White and Green/White to the green wire of the pigtail, and White/Orange and White/Green to the pigtail's white wire? 

 

[mikefamig]

The way to test for proper termination is to connect both keypads, the p212s and the termination plug in the dbh. Then power the system off and test the resistance between "data a" and "data b" at the M1 control. The ohm meter should read approx 65 ohms plus or minus 10 ohms.
 
Mike.

 

[jon102034050]

No, the address does not have to match the plug location on the DBH.  The DBH just provides wiring between the cables plugged into it.
 
If each keypad and the P212S is configured to a different address, then that leaves some sort of wiring problem as the cause.
 
If the wiring to keypad 2 has a problem on the return wires, then the entire data bus is probably not being terminated properly.  Even without proper termination, some devices still might work and others might not. 
 
Since your cable is short, and you'd rather not re-terminate it, I guess I would try the following things:
 
1. Look closely at the RJ45 to make sure all the wires are inserted all the way in to each pin, and are ordered correctly.
 
2. Re-crimp the RJ45 that is already there.  It might be that it just didn't get crimped with enough force to make a good, solid connection to all the wires.
 
3. Use a multimeter or cable tester to check for conductivity from one end of the cable to the other, and also for shorts between the conductors.
 
4. When you spliced the Cat5 to the keypad pigtail, did you get the color coding right?   Orange/White and Green/White to the green wire of the pigtail, and White/Orange and White/Green to the pigtail's white wire? 

I'll go through these 4 points when I'm done with work today, thanks!
 

The way to test for proper termination is to connect both keypads, the p212s and the termination plug in the dbh. Then power the system off and test the resistance between "data a" and "data b" at the M1 control. The ohm meter should read approx 65 ohms plus or minus 10 ohms.
 
Mike.

This is very useful, I'll use it in my troubleshooting later.
 
Thanks guys, will report back tonight!

 

[Del91574]

I'm going with a poor crimp or RJ. Sounds very much like the data is not feeding back out of whatever you have connected to output 2 on the DBH.
 
The M1 isn't going to toss any flags if the terminating resistor isn't seen by the panel or if the bus is T-tapped somewhere (different conversation) but if the data isn't a feed/return on the DBH or from your KP or field cabling, you've got issues

 

[jon102034050]

Figured it out! Turns out one of the dolphin connectors I used to connect the kp2 to the ethernet cable was loose. I removed the faceplate of the kp2 and just clamped down each of the connectors, powered on the elk and it immediately was recognized on enrollment. Thanks so much for the help guys, you all rock!

 

[RAL]

I'm glad you were able to find it without too much trouble!  
 
Sometimes, those B-connectors seem like they are crimped solidly when they really aren't.   Although they are designed to make a connection through insulated wires, it requires just the right amount of crimping force - not too much and not too little.  Some folks prefer to strip the wires and twist them together first, to ensure good contact no matter what.

 

[mikefamig]

I recommend that you get rid of the crimp connectors and solder each splice or at least strip and twist each connection and then cap it with a wire nut or even a dolphin connector.
 
Mike.

 

[Del91574]

I recommend that you get rid of the crimp connectors and solder each splice or at least strip and twist each connection and then cap it with a wire nut or even a dolphin connector.
 
Mike.

Wire nuts are the worst for LV. So much so they're banned on many of the sites I work at; Crimp or similar connection only (solder is prohibited depending on voltage/amperage of the specific control circuits).
 
Usually the difference between a LV job with issues and one that is rock solid is the wire nuts from my experience. Only place they have is once the conductor sizes get up high enough where it can be justified, usually 16 or heavier IMHO.

 

[mikefamig]

Wire nuts are the worst for LV. So much so they're banned on many of the sites I work at; Crimp or similar connection only (solder is prohibited depending on voltage/amperage of the specific control circuits).
 
Usually the difference between a LV job with issues and one that is rock solid is the wire nuts from my experience. Only place they have is once the conductor sizes get up high enough where it can be justified, usually 16 or heavier IMHO.ut this low v

 
In my little personal experience with my Elk security system I have learned enough to take you at your word. I have a good amount of experience with automotive electrical circuits, have done a good amount of 120vac wiring around the house and garage and hobby at transistor radio printed circuit repair where everything is soldered but my experience with LV security system wiring has been an eye opener for me.  It exists somewhere between the higher amperage automotive electrics and the printed circuit radio electronics. It seems that the amperage is low enough and the exposure to elements is severe enough that it should justify soldering everything but that is not the industry standard.
 
In the future I will solder when possible,
 
Mike.