Planning new home system: cameras/pre-wiring/etc

[dabido]

Building a new home here; will be running the wires within a week(s) time.
 
I'm starting to consider going for IP cameras for their quality, but I can't seem to find the range of pricing for these.
 
Perfect world:
-6 IP cameras
-self contained DVR or NVR software running on Mac
 
Outstanding questions:
-What am I looking at for cost for something like this?
-What do I need to pre-wire for an IP camera installation? Just CAT6? [I told my electrician to run RG6 and CAT6 in case I flip flop...]
-What other hardware would I need to purchase? POE switch?
 
If anyone could recommend some brands/products/cameras, I'd really appreciate it. I did some digging around on here, but most other posts were covering enterprise-level tech. 
 
Hopeful budget: 100-200 per camera? Possible?

 

[Del91574]

You're never going to find a professional NVR/hybrid running on a Mac. They simply don't exist. The majority of units out there run either Linux or an embedded Windows OS.
 
For wiring, as a minimum, you should have a category cable and an 18/2 to each camera. For belt and suspenders, you would need the prior and a coax. RG6 would add an unnecessary expense.
 
You also need to know how you are intending to power them, assuming POE and not POE+ or anything else.
 
As far as cost, in my world your per camera budget wouldn't get you very far, I'm usually around $2-300 per analog camera at my cost.

 

[apostolakisl]

I've been happy with my Foscam units.  They have a whole range of IP cameras as well as h.264.  Indoor/outdoor/pan/tilt/2way audio are all available features.  They are very high value considering quality and features at a price and fit your budget.  There are a number of dvr software packages available that work with the foscam, but I have not tried them.  There are also quite a few smartphone apps that are compatible with them.  They are one of the more popular brands so they have a lot of 3rd party support.  Between myself and a friend of mine, we have 12 of them and have had no troubles.
 
And for what they cost, you won't feel too bad if 5 years down the road you want to replace them with the latest technology.
 
I have them all powered via LV power wire.  They are pretty much all wireless or wired.  If your walls are open, I would certainly go ahead and pull the cat wire.  But the ones I have on wifi work perfectly also.  My bet is you will never use your rg6, but I see no harm in pulling it.  In summary, at least pull wire for power and CAT.  Depending on what camera you use and if you want audio, you might need to run audio cable.  But with the Foscam units, audio goes over the IP.

 

[wkearney99]

Note that motion detection can be tricky with wireless if it's the DVR end that's doing the detecting.  Glitches in the wireless signal might get misinterpreted as motion and fire off events unnecessarily.  
 
For stuff like this it's hard to argue against using a standalone security DVR.  The black box tends to be 'set and forget' and usually consumes less power.  Sure, it might not be as 'versatile' as a PC-based solution but it'll just 'stay running' without updates or other intervention.

 

[apostolakisl]

Note that motion detection can be tricky with wireless if it's the DVR end that's doing the detecting.  Glitches in the wireless signal might get misinterpreted as motion and fire off events unnecessarily.  
 
For stuff like this it's hard to argue against using a standalone security DVR.  The black box tends to be 'set and forget' and usually consumes less power.  Sure, it might not be as 'versatile' as a PC-based solution but it'll just 'stay running' without updates or other intervention.

 
There is a lot to be said for that.  I also have a standalone dvr system and what you say about the set it and forget and it just works is very true.  But, I have added the foscam units to complement the dvr.  The reason being I just couldn't get the dvr to integrate with the various other HA stuff.  If I were to do it again I would go IP only, but I could certainly appreciate someone wanting to go the stand alone route only.

 

[dabido]

Thank you all for your input thus far.
Since yesterday, I've stumbled on this Q-See IP standalone with 4 cameras (supports up to 8 channels)
Q-See IP DVR
 
Does anyone have any experience with Q-See as a brand? The 8 channel box with 4 included bullet cams runs about $1000-1200 depending on the vendor. Additional 720p bullet or dome cameras are about $200-240. 
 
This is pushing over my budget, but you all know that pain of buying outdated technology...I just can't bring myself to buy an analog system.
 
Re: the RG6 remarks, I need to read up on the difference between RG59 and RG6-- can anyone explain like I'm 5? If I'm running coax for cable TV, should I run RG59?
 
Thanks folks.

 

[dabido]

I've been happy with my Foscam units.  

 
I'll check out Foscam stuff--I've read warnings before about 'fake' foscams running outdated firmware, etc. Where do you purchase from? Is there a reliable source?
Are you using a standalone DVR or accessing them from a PC?
 
Can you recommend any foscam units specifically? I'm looking to outfit the home with 4 outdoor bullet, 1 outdoor PTZ (a nice to have) and 1 indoor dome/bullet.

 

[apostolakisl]

I'll check out Foscam stuff--I've read warnings before about 'fake' foscams running outdated firmware, etc. Where do you purchase from? Is there a reliable source?
Are you using a standalone DVR or accessing them from a PC?
 
Can you recommend any foscam units specifically? I'm looking to outfit the home with 4 outdoor bullet, 1 outdoor PTZ (a nice to have) and 1 indoor dome/bullet.

 
If you look at Amazon, I believe you should be able to buy direct from the manufacturer.
 
I only have one indoor model, FI8910W.  It does pan/tilt, IR, and has 2 way audio as well (need separate mic/speaker).  IR only gives you a black and white image (as expected).  My friend has outdoor ones and indoor ones.  He has at least 3 different models in total and he likes them all, but I don't know for sure which models he has.  At least one of them is a bullet style.
 
I access them via a PC.  They have a feature where you can link all of your cameras together and then open one port to one camera.  From there you can view all of the cameras online.  They will send you emails with still images when motion is detected if you want.
 
I don't have any DVR software to comment on how they might work with that.  All of my outdoor cams are part of a standalone DVR system, which works fine, I just can't get it to work very well with other stuff.

 

[tmbrown97]

Also take a look at the grandstream products - they support standard POE and even SIP which could be fun in the future - and you can get 2 or 5 megapixel.  List price is higher than your budget but if you look in the right places you can find them for less - or PM me for a quote.

 

[wkearney99]

Anyone looking for FI8910W in white, Best Buy has 'em on sale: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Foscam---Indoor-Wireless-IP-Camera---White/6553265.p?id=1218752777869&skuId=6553265

 

[snakevargas]

 

Does anyone have any experience with Q-See as a brand?

I've installed 3 q-see DVRs with analog cameras. The DVRs themselves have worked out great. Lots of features and no complaints.

However, I've had numerous problems with their analog cameras. Several of them have had the IR leds fail. I think one camera failed outright. The analog video + power cables are so failure prone that I won't ever install another one.

I've been considering trying out their IP camera solution in my new home, but only if it will work with other brands of cameras than just Q-See. Still need to do my research on that. If 4 channels would suit you, costco.com has the 4-channel package for $699, and the return policy is excellent.

 

[video321]

I wouldn't automatically rule out the Q-See.
 
I have an analog 16-ch. package that was bundled with an excellent DVR (IIRC it was Dahua, but may have been TVT.) The cameras are crap, but usable. It's the DVR that made the purchase worth it. Check out cctvforum.com for more info. Beware though, I've also worked on Q-See DVRs that were less than worthless!

 

[uberjeph]

I'm in the process of doing the same thing.  Just completed construction of my house.  Was initially going to go analog, but ended up going with IP cameras because of the price point.  I actually had a PC setup with zoneminder (open source DVR) and an analog card but dropped that due to the resolution (or lack thereof) compared to IP and costs (IP has come down a lot in the last 2 years).
 
so what I'm in the process of doing:
 
--6 IP cameras, 5MP each, IR LEDs, ONVIF compliant (so it works with certain software), Chinese made cameras--price point ~$200 each 
--CAT6 to each location (monoprice for parts, ~$100)
--because of the number of POE ports and the total power draw (cameras with the IR LED lights on, it's probably about 12W) your POE budget for the switch must be at least 72W.  Translation, you need a pretty good POE switch.  I ended up going with a Cisco 3560 which you'd most likely find running in a full on data center--but i'm in the silicon valley, these things grow on trees.  (ebay, ~$250)
--using milestone DVR software on a low power PC.  software is stable, closed source, and is actively being developed.  there is a free version that only holds 5 days worth of footage, but really you have to figure out what you want the DVR to be used for and if 5 days is good enough.  (milestone, free + old pc)
--and lastly this is pretty geeky (so don't worry if this doesn't make sense) but I'm setting up a separate VLAN for the camera traffic to keep that traffic from impacting the speed of the rest of my network.  Granted the compression built in to the cameras is pretty good but since my switch can vlan why not.
 
Now if you couldn't tell I work in IT so this stuff makes sense to me.  It's not really a lot of tweeking since the software is off the shelf, but it's not as simple as a q-see system out of the box.  Just another data point for ya.
 
Jeff
 
 
 
 

 

[wkearney99]

A VLAN isn't going to lessen the impact on the switch.  And a switch would already be isolating packet traffic.  So using a VLAN doesn't really buy you anything as far as traffic impact.  What would impact it would be segregating the traffic on a separate switch.  Then you're only dealing with traffic that actually needs to get in/out of the camera setup (a client viewing them, etc).  But then I'm not familiar with the 3560.  A VLAN certainly can't 'hurt', other than the configuration complexity, but I wouldn't assume just how much it would actually help.
 
The same issue came up for me when dealing with DVR traffic.  It was, in the long run, easier and cheaper to segregate the Tivo and HTPC on a separate 8-port gigabit switch.  That way the 'digital freight train' didn't impact the performance of the rest of the network.  Another upside was there's no configuration to remember or tweak.  It's organized by physical device. 

 

[rsw686]

--using milestone DVR software on a low power PC.  software is stable, closed source, and is actively being developed.  there is a free version that only holds 5 days worth of footage, but really you have to figure out what you want the DVR to be used for and if 5 days is good enough.  (milestone, free + old pc)
 

I've been happy with the Milestone XProtect software as well. It is fairly intuitive to use and the viewer client works well over the Internet. I have a location with 12 analog cameras and Panasonic IP converters. Takes around 500G of space to record 30 days.