Please help with Prewire

[hunter69]

I built a new garage and am turning my old garage into living space. I am to the point of insulation/drywall. I am late in deciding to prewire for some HA. Here is what I am thinking

Lighting HA- I have a decent patio with lights and would like to automate these lights.
I have two freezer circuits- In the end I would like a HA monitoring outlet to notify me of a failure.
Automate the garage doors
Possible prewire for one security cam.
Prewire for a motion sensor or two. I have looked at some of the Elk systems.

Right now I need to accomplish a quick prewire (deadline coming quickly). I am thinking of pulling a cat5e to each switch/outlet. This is strictly a DIY project, so am I on the right track? Should I pull any other wire for ths. I have thought about wireless but thought I should pull some wires since I have access to the walls.

Thanks for your time and input
Bill

 

[mustangcoupe]

Bill,

Welcome to CT. Check out the wiring your new house links in my signature. It is a good read but long, but if you keep to the type of living area you are installing you will get some good information.

 

[beelzerob]

I built a new garage and am turning my old garage into living space. I am to the point of insulation/drywall. I am late in deciding to prewire for some HA. Here is what I am thinking

So, are we talking prewiring for the new garage, or the new living space?

Lighting HA- I have a decent patio with lights and would like to automate these lights.

Cat5 to each switch is a pretty safe bet. You can bring the wire to the top of the outlet box and tape it there so you can fish it out later if you need.

I have two freezer circuits- In the end I would like a HA monitoring outlet to notify me of a failure.

Not sure exactly what you mean here....what kind of failure do you mean? Do you mean a freezer failure? Since freezers go on and off, I'm not sure how you'd be able to monitor that effectively short of a temp probe inside the freezer itself. Otherwise, there are simple current detectors you could use to check that the freezer is running. If it doesnt come on within several hours, maybe that would indicate something. *shrug* Either way, running cat5 into the area of where the freezers are is a safe bet.

Automate the garage doors

Ok, i guess we're talking about the new garage then! Run cat5 to the switch on the wall that opens the doors. Then cat5 to a location near each door so you can wire up sensors for open/close sensing. And of course, since you're doing this all yourself, make sure you run the wire the garage door opener itself needs for its photo-sensors and to the wall plate, etc. Might as well put it in the walls instead of stapling it out in the open.

Possible prewire for one security cam.

I don't have any, and the new home wiring guide would cover what you need, but as a simple minimum...cat5, 18/2, and RG6.

Prewire for a motion sensor or two. I have looked at some of the Elk systems.

Cat5 again.

If there are doors or windows you want to hardwire for security, now is a good time, but you'd have to not only run the wire but figure out where it's going to come out for the window. For me that involved drilling and fishing through BEFORE drywall went in, because it would have been impossible after that. It is a pain, but wired is always better than wireless. Not that wireless is always bad....wired is just better.

good luck!

 

[hunter69]

I built a new garage and am turning my old garage into living space. I am to the point of insulation/drywall. I am late in deciding to prewire for some HA. Here is what I am thinking

So, are we talking prewiring for the new garage, or the new living space?

Garage

Lighting HA- I have a decent patio with lights and would like to automate these lights.

Cat5 to each switch is a pretty safe bet. You can bring the wire to the top of the outlet box and tape it there so you can fish it out later if you need.
I have been contemplating pulling some of the flexible low voltage conduit but I am not sure how to make this conduit accessible.

I have two freezer circuits- In the end I would like a HA monitoring outlet to notify me of a failure.

Basically I am talking about circuit/outlet failure, thats all.

Not sure exactly what you mean here....what kind of failure do you mean? Do you mean a freezer failure? Since freezers go on and off, I'm not sure how you'd be able to monitor that effectively short of a temp probe inside the freezer itself. Otherwise, there are simple current detectors you could use to check that the freezer is running. If it doesnt come on within several hours, maybe that would indicate something. *shrug* Either way, running cat5 into the area of where the freezers are is a safe bet.

Automate the garage doors

Ok, i guess we're talking about the new garage then! Run cat5 to the switch on the wall that opens the doors. Then cat5 to a location near each door so you can wire up sensors for open/close sensing. And of course, since you're doing this all yourself, make sure you run the wire the garage door opener itself needs for its photo-sensors and to the wall plate, etc. Might as well put it in the walls instead of stapling it out in the open.

The garage doors are installed and functioning. The safety sensors are also installed and working. So if I understand this correctly pull a cat5e each to say each lower right hand corner of each garage door? Do I need to pull a cat5e to each outlet the garage door openers are plugged into?

Possible prewire for one security cam.

I don't have any, and the new home wiring guide would cover what you need, but as a simple minimum...cat5, 18/2, and RG6.

Prewire for a motion sensor or two. I have looked at some of the Elk systems.

Cat5 again.

If there are doors or windows you want to hardwire for security, now is a good time, but you'd have to not only run the wire but figure out where it's going to come out for the window. For me that involved drilling and fishing through BEFORE drywall went in, because it would have been impossible after that. It is a pain, but wired is always better than wireless. Not that wireless is always bad....wired is just better.

good luck!

No windows to be concerned about.

 

[hunter69]

SO i meesed up that reply. Sorry
I am talking about the garage only for now.

I want to monitor the freezer circuit for failure.

I need help pullling the cat5e to the correct location at the garage doors for the sensors. Do I need to pull cat5e to the outlets the garage doors are plugged into?

I am thinking of pulling flexible conduit to the switch location but am a little puzzled on how to make it accessible after the drywall goes on.

Where should I pull the wire to the door for the sensor?

 

[beelzerob]

Well, I can't help with the conduit...never bothered with too much of that stuff. I just took pics of where my wires were and if I need one now I drill a hole in the drywall to get it.

I don't have any idea how you would monitor a circuit for failure, since wouldn't that failure look just the same as the freezer not being on? I guess you could try to sense when absolutely zero watts are being used, and assume that means failure of power (I assume meaning just that circuit tripped). I still think measuring the freezer internal temp might be more failproof. Either way, pull some cat5 to a location nearby and into a low voltage mudring.

For the garage door, you're trying to sense when it is up and when it is down. So there's kind of 2 ways to do that. You can either pull wires to near the top of the garage door and to near the bottom, with the expectation of putting a magnetic switch somewhere on the door such that you can tell which position the garage door is on. Or, you can do what I did, which was to drop a wire right above the opener itself, and then run that wire along the opener track. I put a magnet on top of the carriage for the door, and a magnetic reed switch at both ends of the track. A little adjusting and it has worked great (though I really only use the "down" sensor, not both). I have pics of it somewhere in these forums....

 

[beelzerob]

Here's a great thread on wiring the garage door for sensors, including pics.

 

[Steve]

Or... With just magnet and switch at the top of the door you can tell if the door is closed or not. If not, one would assume 99% of the time it is open. The second switch will only tell you if it is fully open, which at least imho is a safe bet. But it depends what you're after. I basically just want to know if the door is closed because if not somebody can get in regardless of how much is open.

And on the wiring, inasmuch as Cat5 will work, it is overkill except for the light switches and camera. All the contacts, etc I much prefer to use standard 22 gauge security wire. 22/2 for un-powered switches and contacts and 22/4 for powered devices like motions and glass. Some just get 22/4 and use it for everything, even that is better than Cat5 imho. But if you don't have a nice structured panel to work within and you don't care about the extra bulk and wires and you just want to buy 1 roll, electrically Cat5 will work for everything you mentioned.

 

[hunter69]

Or... With just magnet and switch at the top of the door you can tell if the door is closed or not. If not, one would assume 99% of the time it is open. The second switch will only tell you if it is fully open, which at least imho is a safe bet. But it depends what you're after. I basically just want to know if the door is closed because if not somebody can get in regardless of how much is open.

And on the wiring, inasmuch as Cat5 will work, it is overkill except for the light switches and camera. All the contacts, etc I much prefer to use standard 22 gauge security wire. 22/2 for un-powered switches and contacts and 22/4 for powered devices like motions and glass. Some just get 22/4 and use it for everything, even that is better than Cat5 imho. But if you don't have a nice structured panel to work within and you don't care about the extra bulk and wires and you just want to buy 1 roll, electrically Cat5 will work for everything you mentioned.

Well I have quite a bit of Cat5e but I do not mind using 22/4 for this area. I am in a real time crunch just to get this in before the drywall.

I have thought about my goal and what I am looking for is to definitely to see if the door is closed, so I am thinking to run the wire to the top of the garage door. The one other goal with the garage doors would be to open the garage door automatically when a certain point is crossed with the car. So I my first assumption is to prewire a motion sensor, is this correct?

I do not have a structured wiring panel yet but I have plans to construct a wiring/media closet in the near future, so this could come into play. I might be smarter to put in the conduit and pull wire later as needed.

 

[hunter69]

So I have been doing a lot of reading in regards to pulling the wire properly. I want to basically pull wire for just about any setup (I will never be able to afford crestron). SO I want to throw out my thoughts on what I am doing to see if it is wrong.

Situation:
I have a 4 gang box for light switches. I have 2 garage doors, one standard entry door, two electrical one gang boxes(right now these are a standard gfi recepticle), 1 motion detector and 1 secuity camera.

I do not know what the future is going bring in the area (HA) so I just want to get some wire in the wall to provide me with the capability use about anything.

Question 1. Is it proper to pull the HA wire directly to the 4 gang box (this box currently has the electrical wire and the standard switches installed? Is it a good plan/future proof to pull 22/4 and shielded 18/4 to this box? Do I need more than 1 home run of each if I decide to do some type of automation to all four switches? I see a lot of talk about keypads, if I am required to use a keypad in the lighting setup later, will I be ok with the wires pulled to the 4 gang box?

Question 2. Will 22/4 be sufficient to the 1 gang standard gfi recepticle, garage doors and motion detector location. I have been attempting to determine where to pull wire to for each garage door and entry door. I am going to pull wire to a single gang box located in a upper corner of each garage door and to the garage door opener location. For the standard entry door I am going to pull wire to a single gang low voltage box located in the upper corner that swings out. I will pull 22/4 for all these runs.

Question 3. I am going to pull 1 cat5,1 rg6 + a 18/4 wire(I will already have this wire) to the camera location.

Thanks for any input that you can provide to my final plan.
Bill

 

[Neurorad]

Most people here at cocoontech use UPB technology to automated light switches. Communication to the switch is done over the powerlines, and not with additional cables. Other popular control protocols include Z-Wave and ZigBee. Lutron Radio RA2 is another one. Z-Wave, ZigBee, and Radio RA2 use RF to communicate, so no control cables are necessary for those technologies.

The motion detectors, contact sensors, and camera cables should be run to a central location where control equipment will be located (aka Wiring Closet), preferably in a climate-controlled area (not the garage). Most people use an alarm-type controller (Elk M1, HAI OPII) for control, but you may be able to get away with much less, using more basic controllers. It sounds like you have the need for an alarm panel, with multiple zones - the M1EZ8 may be a good, relatively affordable solution. I would use 22/4 for all contact sensors and motion sensors. The cameras should get 22/4 and an ethernet (cat5e or cat6) cable.

Beelzerob's link above is awesome for automating garage doors.

If you think you may want more cameras and motion detectors eventually, wire for them now.

Sorry you're so pressed for time, wire what you can.

Edit - and take hundreds of pictures, so you can find the cables easily after the drywall goes up.

 

[Steve]

I do not know what the future is going bring in the area (HA) so I just want to get some wire in the wall to provide me with the capability use about anything.

Question 1. Is it proper to pull the HA wire directly to the 4 gang box (this box currently has the electrical wire and the standard switches installed? Is it a good plan/future proof to pull 22/4 and shielded 18/4 to this box? Do I need more than 1 home run of each if I decide to do some type of automation to all four switches? I see a lot of talk about keypads, if I am required to use a keypad in the lighting setup later, will I be ok with the wires pulled to the 4 gang box?

I have never seen 22/4 or 18/4 to an electrical box. Usually that is Cat5. If you are going to use hardwired switches those usually take a Cat5. And the wires should not go IN the box unless they are rated at 600V and even then you may still have issues. Do as others have done and tape the wires to the TOP of the box so you can access them later if you need them.

Question 2. Will 22/4 be sufficient to the 1 gang standard gfi recepticle, garage doors and motion detector location. I have been attempting to determine where to pull wire to for each garage door and entry door. I am going to pull wire to a single gang box located in a upper corner of each garage door and to the garage door opener location. For the standard entry door I am going to pull wire to a single gang low voltage box located in the upper corner that swings out. I will pull 22/4 for all these runs.

Again, I'm not sure about the 22 to electrical outlets or switches. I would pull the 22 to all door, window and motion/glass locations. And don't forget the attic hatch if you have one in the garage. For the side entry door you may want to consider a 'hidden' contact like this. Drill the right size hole in the upper part of the door frame near the outer edge (a few inches in) and route the wire to that. The sensor part will push up into that hole and the magnet part get put in the top edge of the door. They are nice and clean and work well. EOL's would probably be a good idea as well but for that you need to know what panel you will be using. If ot sure, you may want to just leave the wire by the side door because once its pushed into place its tough to get back out.

And, what about a heat detector in the garage?

Question 3. I am going to pull 1 cat5,1 rg6 + a 18/4 wire(I will already have this wire) to the camera location.

That sounds right.

 

[beelzerob]

Heat detector is a good idea, right above where the cars will be parked.

What about speakers?

I guess this is a rush job, so you probably can't add too much other than what you've already planned, but hey, give us here in the forums time and we'll list everything you *should* have wired for.

 

[hunter69]

And on the wiring, inasmuch as Cat5 will work, it is overkill except for the light switches and camera. All the contacts, etc I much prefer to use standard 22 gauge security wire. 22/2 for un-powered switches and contacts and 22/4 for powered devices like motions and glass. Some just get 22/4 and use it for everything, even that is better than Cat5 imho. But if you don't have a nice structured panel to work within and you don't care about the extra bulk and wires and you just want to buy 1 roll, electrically Cat5 will work for everything you mentioned.

I was reading the above quote and figured this meant run 22/4 to the light switches and electrical plugins. I guess I was mistaken. I will run cat5e to the 4 gang box and to the electrical plugins. Is that the correct wire for this these areas? I will tape the wire to the top of the box. If I am dealing with all 4 switches do I need 4 runs of cat5e?

Again, I'm not sure about the 22 to electrical outlets or switches. I would pull the 22 to all door, window and motion/glass locations. And don't forget the attic hatch if you have one in the garage. For the side entry door you may want to consider a 'hidden' contact like this. Drill the right size hole in the upper part of the door frame near the outer edge (a few inches in) and route the wire to that. The sensor part will push up into that hole and the magnet part get put in the top edge of the door. They are nice and clean and work well. EOL's would probably be a good idea as well but for that you need to know what panel you will be using. If ot sure, you may want to just leave the wire by the side door because once its pushed into place its tough to get back out.

I was actually thinking of that type of sensor, thanks. Is that sensor, specific to a particular system (elk, HAI) by the link provided it appears to be for elk. I will drill the hole and pull 22/4 to that location. No windows to worry about in this garage. I will get a 22/4 wire pulled to the hatch and motion sensor. I am currently looking up what an EOL is? For an EOL just pull a 22/4?

So the camera will get a RG6, cat5e and a 22/4, ok?

The motion detectors, contact sensors, and camera cables should be run to a central location where control equipment will be located (aka Wiring Closet), preferably in a climate-controlled area (not the garage). Most people use an alarm-type controller (Elk M1, HAI OPII) for control, but you may be able to get away with much less, using more basic controllers. It sounds like you have the need for an alarm panel, with multiple zones - the M1EZ8 may be a good, relatively affordable solution. I would use 22/4 for all contact sensors and motion sensors. The cameras should get 22/4 and an ethernet (cat5e or cat6) cable.

We built a new garage. I am transforming the old garage into living space. I have figured out a location for a wiring closet, in the old garage. This area is somewhat climate controlled but the house is cooled by a swamp cooler, so I have not ironed out the cooling aspect of the wiring closet. So any wire being pulled will go to that location and be xtra long because I do not have the closet built yet. I am leaning towards an Elk controller but I have read good things about UPB which would require HAI (if I am correct). My goal is to get the correct wire to the correct locations then make hardware decisions later as it all gets done. The new living space will be a home theater/workout room etc.

If you think you may want more cameras and motion detectors eventually, wire for them now

For this part of the equation, I want to make sure I do the following correctly. I have lights on the outside of the garage. I will want to put these on some type of motion sensor. Then if there is motion outside they come on or what ever. To integrate this into a security system like I am trying to do, what do I need for wiring specific? I know you can purchase a motion sensor integrated into lights but I am betting this motion sensor won't work to integrate into this type of security system.

Now remember you are talking to a new person with no experience at this, so if I sound ignorant, it is because I am. So I am having trouble expressing myself. So if motion is detected inside the garage, outsie the garage I would like the capability to turn on the outside lights and the garage lights. SO I am planning a motion detector in a strategic location inside the garage and pulling a 22/4 from the wiring closet. If I want my senario to come reality what else should i plan. Hopefully this is clear enough.

Let me give you say a quick senario. Lets say I choose UPB then that dictates say a HAI omni II. I have one motion sensor inside the garage. Will a outside light integrated motion sensor work or do I need to plan specific motion sensor locations outside and get 22/4 pulled to them from the wiring closet?

Thanks for your help and your patience
Bill

 

[beelzerob]

So the camera will get a RG6, cat5e and a 22/4, ok?

That should definitely handle any future camera you want to put there.

Now remember you are talking to a new person with no experience at this, so if I sound ignorant, it is because I am.

Pfft...we've all been there. Ask anything you want, no one here has a short temper (or we would NOT have picked HA for a hobby!).