Please help with Prewire

[hunter69]

Heat detector is a good idea, right above where the cars will be parked.

What about speakers?

I guess this is a rush job, so you probably can't add too much other than what you've already planned, but hey, give us here in the forums time and we'll list everything you *should* have wired for.

I wired for 4 outdoor speakers, and plan on 2 indoor speakers. For now, I plan on placing some type of amp in a cabinet in the garage but I am installing a 1.5 smurf tube. The smurk tube should allow me to pull 3x 14/4 speaker wires back to the wiring closet for distributed audio. Tble hen I will have a blank double gang box that the 1.5 inch smurf tube runs through (for a possible music keypad later)

Now on to the possibility of heat sensors, what does that require (for wiring at least? I low volt box and 22/4 pulled to it??

Thanks for the suggestion.

Bill

 

[beelzerob]

Now on to the possibility of heat sensors, what does that require (for wiring at least? I low volt box and 22/4 pulled to it??

Yup, that's all. 22/4. Heck, you don't even need the low voltage box if you don't want...I think I just drilled a hole to where the wire was, pulled it through, and then mounted the heat detector to the drywall directly.

but your way is probably better. Easier access to the 22/4 anyway.

 

[Steve]

I was actually thinking of that type of sensor, thanks. Is that sensor, specific to a particular system (elk, HAI) by the link provided it appears to be for elk. I will drill the hole and pull 22/4 to that location. No windows to worry about in this garage. I will get a 22/4 wire pulled to the hatch and motion sensor. I am currently looking up what an EOL is? For an EOL just pull a 22/4?

EOL is just End Of Line resistor, a small components that allows you to detect shorted or tampered wires. They are not required but usually recommended on new construction. The reason I brought it up is because the ELk and Omni use a different resistor value and if you are undecided on the panel I would either skip the EOL or just leave the wire hanging for now so you don't have to monkey with the installed sensor later. That sensor listed is a simple Normally Closed sensor and will work on either panel.

So the camera will get a RG6, cat5e and a 22/4, ok?

Again, I'm not sure of the value of a 22/4 to a camera? There are 2 types of camera - IP or 'standard'. An IP camera usually just uses a Cat5. A standard camera will usually need an RG6 or 59 for Video and something for power. Usually an 18 gauge wire is used for power, not 22. So I would pull a Cat5, RG6 or 59 and an 18/2 or 4.

For this part of the equation, I want to make sure I do the following correctly. I have lights on the outside of the garage. I will want to put these on some type of motion sensor. Then if there is motion outside they come on or what ever. To integrate this into a security system like I am trying to do, what do I need for wiring specific? I know you can purchase a motion sensor integrated into lights but I am betting this motion sensor won't work to integrate into this type of security system.

Now remember you are talking to a new person with no experience at this, so if I sound ignorant, it is because I am. So I am having trouble expressing myself. So if motion is detected inside the garage, outsie the garage I would like the capability to turn on the outside lights and the garage lights. SO I am planning a motion detector in a strategic location inside the garage and pulling a 22/4 from the wiring closet. If I want my senario to come reality what else should i plan. Hopefully this is clear enough.

Let me give you say a quick senario. Lets say I choose UPB then that dictates say a HAI omni II. I have one motion sensor inside the garage. Will a outside light integrated motion sensor work or do I need to plan specific motion sensor

I'm not sure I follow, You want motion INside the garage to trigger a light on the OUTside? Well, doesn't really matter, they are really separate things. If you have motion detectors (PIR) wired to the panel and lights controlled by the panel then any motion detector can control any light. Some people have rigged those motion lights to work but if you are in a position to use separate motion detectors and lights then I prefer that. So pull a 22/4 to any location inside or out that you may want a PIR and pull a Cat5 to any light switch you may want to do hardwired lighting. Remember - there are only a few types of hardwired lighting like this - ALC and Homeworks. If you are not doing hardwire lighting in the rest of the house, I'm not sure I would bother, but it doesn't hurt to have the wire there.

And UPB works fine with either Elk or Omni. HAI just has some HLC control (UPB) functions built in.

 

[Steve]

22/4 is ok for Heat. I used 18/2 solid 'firewire' for both smoke and heat but 22/4 will be ok (you will only use 2 conductors like on door contacts).

 

[hunter69]

So if I pull the cat5e to have wire there, do I need 4 separate runs or will one due?

SO I need to quickly figure out outside motion sensor location and get a wire to that location, correct.

 

[beelzerob]

So if I pull the cat5e to have wire there, do I need 4 separate runs or will one due?

Well, lighting is a can of worms that *no one* has the time to fully consider. If you want to play it safe, run a separate cat5 to every switch location and homerun them somewhere accessible.

SO I need to quickly figure out outside motion sensor location and get a wire to that location, correct.

Meh, just run a separate wire to the 4 corners of the roof and make it accessible from the outside. Then, if you have to move it, you can always run it on the outside in steel conduit for security.

Steve, I thought 22/4 could be used for power if it had to be, for a camera. That reason people were telling him 22/4 is just so that he doesn't have to get yet another spool of different wire, and just use 22/4 for most everything. Can't 22/4 be used for power too? You could always connect the conductors and end up with something like 20/2, right?

 

[hunter69]

So I am going to include a quick drawing of what I am looking at. I am marking possible motion sensor and camera locations. The one thing I forgot to mark is the door sensor but I am pretty sure I am good with running that wire. When I run the wire for the motion sensors, can I just drill a small hole, poke the wire throught, then use tape or something to make sure I don't lose it or is it better to cut in a low voltage box and run the wire to it? Is it ok to plan a motion sensor and camera in the same location? Please approve/deny, provide suggestions

 

[sic0048]

I haven't read through every post, but my only comment was going to be to run the cat5e to every switch and outlet last. That way if you run out of time or money, you hopefully can run the rest. I think with more wireless lighting control systems out there, running LV wire to each switch and outlet is going to become less and less popular.

Run it if you can, but don't fret if it doesn't get done.

 

[hunter69]

I haven't read through every post, but my only comment was going to be to run the cat5e to every switch and outlet last. That way if you run out of time or money, you hopefully can run the rest. I think with more wireless lighting control systems out there, running LV wire to each switch and outlet is going to become less and less popular.

Run it if you can, but don't fret if it doesn't get done.

Thanks for the advice

 

[Neurorad]

Both Elk and HAI alarm controllers can control with UPB, from what I've read.

If you have attic above a finished space (or a garage), then running wires after the walls are finished is relatively easy, in my experience. Cutting and repairing drywall in a garage is also pretty straightforward, as the level of finish isn't the same as inside the house. Having an attic helps tremendously when adding exterior motion sensors, cameras, and speakers.

Do what you can now, don't sweat the small stuff.

Again, take lots of pictures before the drywall goes up.

 

[hunter69]

I just had a thought while I was putting in a box for a motion detector, so here goes:

1. Is there a certain height that the motion detector needs to be mounted at?

2. Do I always need to install a single gang box to mount a motion detector?

3. I was looking around for info, I came across a motion detector at smart home and it had a receiver and a transceiver. So am I correct in thinking that it is proper to put one box in for one motion detector inside the garage?

Thanks again
Bill

 

[Steve]

Steve, I thought 22/4 could be used for power if it had to be, for a camera. That reason people were telling him 22/4 is just so that he doesn't have to get yet another spool of different wire, and just use 22/4 for most everything. Can't 22/4 be used for power too? You could always connect the conductors and end up with something like 20/2, right?

Can it - sure, you can use anything anywhere if you want to. Should he? Well, I am kind of a believer in using the right wire for each purpose, kind of like using the right tool. 18/2 is what is usually recommended for power, of course there are variables like how much current, etc. Always better safe than sorry imho. I never did like combining conductors to get a higher rating but its done all the time. So, my humble opinion is to use 18/2 for camera power but will 22/4 work, most likely.

2. Do I always need to install a single gang box to mount a motion detector?

Nope, most people don't. A large number of PIR installs are in corners. Many times you just make a small hole and pull wire out. It's kind of tough to hide a full gang hole. But I guess it doesn't matter much in the garage?

3. I was looking around for info, I came across a motion detector at smart home and it had a receiver and a transceiver. So am I correct in thinking that it is proper to put one box in for one motion detector inside the garage?

Not sure what you mean. There are a few different types of PIRs like infrared and microwave or dual tech and in various ranges and curtains, etc. There are also beam sensors. Not sure what you mean by receiver? Are you talking wireless?

 

[hunter69]

I guess I am just showing my ignorance, I just want to make sure that I am not doing something wrong. Can someone provide me with a link to popular interior and exterior motion detector used by elk and hai systems.

Also is there a standard height that I am suppose to plan to install a motion detect at.

Thanks
Bill

 

[beelzerob]

I bet Brandon or someone from AutomatedOutlet could answer that...*if* he was reading this.

I'm not sure there's a "standard" height...it mostly depends on the area of sensitivity I would guess. I'd suspect most people would have them in their eaves, or at least a good 8' off the ground.

 

[hunter69]

can it be installed to high? Mine will be close to 10 ft off the ground. If it is installed 10ft off the ground then do I need to angle the motion detector toward the ground? Can I angle a motion detector towards the ground?