Pre wire for home automation

[tigger88zx7]

Hello..my friend turned me to this site so that I can hopefully get some help. I am building a house and the dry wall will be going up in about a month or two. I want to pre-wire my house for a home automation but really need some advise. I would like to have a security system, automated control on lights, garage doors etc.., home theater system, and most important of all be able to monitor my house remotely. I've been reading up on many sites and found that a minimum cable you should run is 2 RG6 & 3 Cat6 in each room & home run it back to your panel. I guess my question is "What should I run and to what location? 

 

[elvisimprsntr]

With everything going wireless these days, its hard to imagine needing to double up on everything. My home came wired for cable an cat5e.

One RG6Q (quad shielded) to each room is sufficient. One one additional RG6Q to attic for OTA antenna and/or high floor room with line of site to satellite TV on an outside wall. Use high quality RG6Q connectors. No cheap push on. One cat5e/6 to each room which can be used for phone or Ethernet, but an extra one of you think you need both. Think about adding cat5e runs for intercom or audio.

Pre-wire your doors/windows for a security system as wireless sensors are more expensive and unattractive. Also eliminates the need to replace batteries.
Wire your smokes to your security panel if you plan to monitor them. Make sure your HVAC has a C-wire run to your thermostat. Most high end touch screen thermostats need a c-wire.

If you can afford it run flexible conduit for a single run from each room to the junction box of sufficient diameter to allow you to pull new wires as technology changes. Don't forget to leave a pull cord in the conduit. Put in a bigger junction box so it will not be crowded when you add to it later.

One more thing, have them install an electrical outlet in the pantry or closet so you have a place to plug in the wall transformer for the wall phone in your kitchen. Put in an open frame low voltage box on the wall just opposite the wall phone so you can run the transformer wire thru.

 

[electron]

Welcome to CocoonTech!
 
Check out this guide, which has all the info you want, and then some.
 
I'm working on converting this to an online format, but for now, the ZIP file contains a bunch of word documents, etc.
 
Probably one of the best guides on the internet, if I do say so myself

http://cocoontech.com/forums/files/file/64-wiring-your-new-house-101zip/

 

[tigger88zx7]

Thanks for all the response. OK please tell me what you guys think..so far this is what I have. I have a "Control center where all my wires will be home run. I have 2 RG6 quad shield cable run in every location with a possible TV or a Security camera and are home run back to my Control center. Plus 4 RG6QS from the roof (Ready for Dish Hook up) back to Control Center, 2 Cat6 in every room (Phone & Internet connections), 1 Cat6 to any light switch I would need to remote in, 2 Cat6 to Thermostat control, 1 Cat6 to all windows and door for security, 1 Cat6 to all smoke detectors. 2 Cat6 to Security Panel, and 1 Cat6 to garage control. All these wires will be home run back to my central control panel. Now as for the entertainment, pre wire all speakers in every room and back to my entertainment box. And from the entertainment box 2 Cat wire back to the Central control. So is this right so far. I know that I have to choose a software to run this but I wanted to make sure that I have covered all the Pre-wire now and for the future before I put up the dry wall.

 

[elvisimprsntr]

As I mentioned everything is going wireless these days, so I think the cat5e runs to each light switch, thermostat is not necessary. Lighting control is accomplished via the power line or RF. Most decent touch thermostats have WiFi build in (eg Nest).

For the window and doors all you need a twisted pair for the sensor. Use the wire type required by code or the suits the application, ie use code required thermostat wire between HVAC and thermostat. You also may want to run cat5e runs to security camera locations and use power over Ethernet (PoE) security cameras.

4 RG6Q runs to the satellite dish seems a bit much for DirectTV which uses SWM now days (ie multiple LNBs and receivers, one wire from dish). Not sure about Dish Network. Make sure you can ground the satellite dish and OTA antenna per National Electric Code.

 

[midon]

Some other things to think about:
 
- if you have a deck, wire RG6Q and CAT5/6 to it (I love my TV on the deck).
- CAT5/6 to wherever you are going to put alarm control keypads
- 120V wiring (get your electrician to do this) for Christmas lights outside, flood lights and a couple of spare outlets in the garage if you are going to have a workshop there.
- CAT5/6 to your doorbell buttons - you never know
- if you are not planning on PoE for security cams, get power run to those locations
 
MItch

 

[apostolakisl]

Definitely do not run a cat6 to every light switch.  Have the electricians wire your house like normal.
UPB, Insteon, Zwave, and a new product called the Ube that is very promising are going to be the options.  UPB and Insteon use powerline communication, Zwave uses RF, Insteon also uses RF plus powerline (dual band) on most of their products in the last couple years.  The new Ube uses IP over your wireless router, it is still in development but can be prepurchased if your willing to take the risk that it never takes off.  The only stuff that uses hardwired controls to your light switches is not DIY, and it is VERY expensive.  Again, have your electricians wire your house like normal so as not to confuse them and so that you can sell the house later if you want to without scaring away buyers.
 
Run lots of conduit anywhere you are not sure what you want or think you might want to updgrade later.  Conduit is cheap and easy and probably will cost less since it allows you to skip all the massive bundle of just-in-case wires (virtually all of which will never be used).  In my house, I exclusively ran conduit and came back after the house was done and pulled only the wires I actually needed.  Most of my conduit goes from a wall or ceiling box to an attic space.  And use very large conduit to your media center locations.
 
Places to run wires/conduit that you might not have right-off thought of.  Main water valve location for the house.  Underneath all water using appliances and plumbing fixtures for water sensors.  Some conduits to the outside of your house that allow you to get wire back to your central control area.  To a water softener location.  To your washer/dryer location for end of cycle announcements.  To your hot water tank(s) for centralized control of temp.  To the outside for reading exterior whether conditions.
 
Check with your local inspector as to what they want regarding fire issues before you do anything.  Get a plan together and present it to him.  Some are very flexible and some are not.  Issues pretty much revolve around the fact that wires and conduit will need to penetrate fire blocks.

 

[picta]

The only stuff that uses hardwired controls to your light switches is not DIY, and it is VERY expensive.  Again, have your electricians wire your house like normal so as not to confuse them and so that you can sell the house later if you want to without scaring away buyers.

 
While hardwired is certainly not for every diy, the rest is a huge misconception. The hard wired anything is a lot cheaper than wireless, including the lighting. This may change in the future, but today you will get a lot more for a wired buck than for the wireless one, and the wired stuff is more reliable and requires less maintenance.  By the same logic you could argue not to use any modern system in your house, like zoned radiant or geothermal or solar power, if you are concerned about scaring off the future buyers. The hardwired lighting is nothing more than a straight wire from a fixture to the central location, and the cost per load with 2 separate switches is the same or less than the similar quality wireless, assuming you have 50+ loads. For a smaller system it will be cheaper to go with other options, but you'll never have the same level of reliability and flexibility as with the hard-wired system.
 
Also, if you want automated window shades, consider running 16/2 + (22/4 or cat5) to every window. I prefer 22/4 to cat5 just because its a smaller wire and is easier to hide when installing a shade. For automated grapes you'll need a HV outlet and a cat5 for control, they can be installed at the normal height right below the window as you can hide the wires behind the drape.

 

[elvisimprsntr]

Good idea on drapes. I forgot about that. If code allows you to, place the electrical outlets to the side of the window where the drapes will cover the outlet when the drapes are retracted.

 

[electron]

Noticed the link didn't post in my previous post, here it is:
http://cocoontech.com/forums/files/file/64-wiring-your-new-house-101zip/

 

[apostolakisl]

While hardwired is certainly not for every diy, the rest is a huge misconception. The hard wired anything is a lot cheaper than wireless, including the lighting. This may change in the future, but today you will get a lot more for a wired buck than for the wireless one, and the wired stuff is more reliable and requires less maintenance.  By the same logic you could argue not to use any modern system in your house, like zoned radiant or geothermal or solar power, if you are concerned about scaring off the future buyers. The hardwired lighting is nothing more than a straight wire from a fixture to the central location, and the cost per load with 2 separate switches is the same or less than the similar quality wireless, assuming you have 50+ loads. For a smaller system it will be cheaper to go with other options, but you'll never have the same level of reliability and flexibility as with the hard-wired system.
 
Also, if you want automated window shades, consider running 16/2 + (22/4 or cat5) to every window. I prefer 22/4 to cat5 just because its a smaller wire and is easier to hide when installing a shade. For automated grapes you'll need a HV outlet and a cat5 for control, they can be installed at the normal height right below the window as you can hide the wires behind the drape.

 
 
Exactly what hardwired system are your referring to that does sales and support to diy?  Co's like Creston do not sell to DIY and if you want a dealer to put them in they are huge money.  Other ones exist, but they are not gong to be less expensive than zwave, UPB or Insteon.
 
And it is not at all a misconception that doing unusual things scares off buyers.  It is a big time deterrent.  Ask a realtor.  Almost nobody out there understands these systems, and when they look at a house with one of these, all they see is expensive service calls when things go wrong.  Furthermore, if you install a system from a co that goes bankrupt and your wiring scheme is unique to that system, you very well may be looking at big time expense.
 
I reiterate, have your electrician wire the HV stuff like normal.  As the world changes, and 99.9% of households have that wiring scheme, things will be designed for that, not other things. You will always have many many options available with a normal HV wiring setup.

 

[picta]

The hard-wired systems are commercial grade and are not sold in retail. However you can get them from places like AutomatedOutlet. It may have some requirements, like attending a course, but they are still available to people who really want them. You'll have to make a trade off between "easy to buy" and "reliable and flexible". You'll still have to use electrician to wire high voltage components, but you can save on the low voltage wiring if diy. Examples of such systems are Centralite Elegance and HAI Omnibus. Even Insteon introduced a DIN module into their line.
 
Home Automation in general is a buyer deterrent. I would not recommend selling your house with DIY lighting system installed for liability reasons. You'll have to pull it out and replace with regular switches, because there is no dealer to call if anything goes wrong. The commercial system on the other hand has a long warranty and a network of dealers, so if someone buys the house with the hard-wired system, it's no different than buying the house with other type of high-grade equipment, including security systems and an efficient HVAC that will have to be serviced by professionals. However I would I agree with you that if you do not plan to reside in the house for a long time, this will not be a suitable solution, unless you live in the area where many of your neighbors have such amenities.

 

[apostolakisl]

The hard-wired systems are commercial grade and are not sold in retail. However you can get them from places like AutomatedOutlet. It may have some requirements, like attending a course, but they are still available to people who really want them. You'll have to make a trade off between "easy to buy" and "reliable and flexible". You'll still have to use electrician to wire high voltage components, but you can save on the low voltage wiring if diy. Examples of such systems are Centralite Elegance and HAI Omnibus. Even Insteon introduced a DIN module into their line.
 
Home Automation in general is a buyer deterrent. I would not recommend selling your house with DIY lighting system installed for liability reasons. You'll have to pull it out and replace with regular switches, because there is no dealer to call if anything goes wrong. The commercial system on the other hand has a long warranty and a network of dealers, so if someone buys the house with the hard-wired system, it's no different than buying the house with other type of high-grade equipment, including security systems and an efficient HVAC that will have to be serviced by professionals. However I would I agree with you that if you do not plan to reside in the house for a long time, this will not be a suitable solution, unless you live in the area where many of your neighbors have such amenities.

 
 
I am not sure you have ever actually used the systems like UPB, Zwave and Insteo.  I can't personally speak for UPB and Zwave, but Insteon is very flexible, particularly with an ISY controller.  I am not sure what it is that you could want a light to do that my system can't do.  And it will control blinds and garage doors and all the other stuff just as well.  Anything that a relay can control, and thermostats too, and it has a network module so it can respond to other devices sending IP commands, and it can send IP commands to other things.  My understanding is that UPB and zwave are similarly endowed.  I agree that you won't have missed commands with a hardwired system.  But missed commands are quite rare, and for pete sake, its just a light, so what if once or twice a month it doesn't do what you thought it would do.
 
And just because they are made available to diy, does not mean they are not also professionally installed.  All of those systems are sold and installed by professionals. They are all UL listed and just as appropriate as any other switch, including the dumb ones.  Perhaps the installer could be faulted for negligence in the event of substandard work, but the same would be true with any system, including the one you list.  And if you pulled your Insteon (or whatever) swtiches when you moved out and replaced with normal switches, I suppose you could be held liable for faulty installation of the regular switches as well.  Although I do believe that generally speaking, this is a buyer beware situation unless purposeful deception could be proven.  Typically a home sale involves the seller purchasing a warranty for the buyer to cover such things.

 

[dgage]

picta - you bring up a good point regarding the selling of a home and the DIY systems included therein.  I think Lutron's RadioRa 2 is a wireless system that would be able to be kept in due to the fact that it isn't really meant to be a DIY system.
 
David

 

[picta]

I think we are highjacking this thread. The original poster specifically asked about hard-wired systems and I wanted to share information that could help with decisions. But to answer your question, yes, I had automated with Insteon and z-wave in my previous residences. I am happy for you and others who are satisfied with their Insteon products now, but I was one of many early adopters that the company used as free testers and I had spent thousands of dollars on Insteon devices that I had to throw out in the garbage. I use zwave now for my door locks, and the system goes blank with error 12 every two weeks, but can be restored with unplugging of VRC0P. Not a big deal for some, but I want my devices to work all the time. What you cannot do with Insteon and other retrofit products is to have any switch to control any load or scene. You have to have at least one switch to be directly wired to a load to be controllable. I don't have more than 2 gang switch boxes installed anywhere, but some people have 12 in a row, matter of personal preference.