Q&A chat session with Ube

[kaosweb]

WIth Ube's recent announcement that they intend to expand past just controlling lights, maybe it would be fun to have a Q&A session with them.
 
As a KickStarter backer (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/702772580/ube-wifi-connected-smart-light-dimmer) I do have some vested interest in these devices and would like to learn more about integration opportunities with other systems - for example my HA system (yet to be build - just broke ground this week) will be mostly HAI centric.
 
I plan to take a slight leap of faith in the project and use Ube for my lighting - I have backed the project for a total of 40 devices - a gamble, perhaps, but one I am willing to take  I think there is a lot of potential.  With their open API, I can see some easy integration with haikuhelper for example.
 
Any other interest.
 
 

 

[electron]

I would definitely like to see this happen as well.  I have backed them myself, as I really do believe this could be the next big thing in home automation.  If there is a remote chance you are interested in learning more about this, even if you aren't backing them, please post here.

 

[ChrisCicc]

I'm interested in learning more from an integration perspective. Poking around their Kickstarter seems to indicate to me they aren't working on 3rd party support for controlling their devices, rather just using their app to control other's devices...
 
To complete this project and ship what we promise, we must: 
1. Achieve our funding goal so that we can cover fixed costs associated with manufacturing these devices. At our current BOM we must receive pledges for at least 10000 units in order to bring these dimmers to you at the right price. 
2. Produce hard tools for the smart dimmers. 
3. Complete the production PCB design and order PCBs and components from our EMS.
4. Secure UL and FCC approval. 
5. Complete the packaging design and order packaging. 
6. Submit our iPhone app to Apple for certification on the app store. 
7. Complete our Android app and place that on Google marketplace. 
8. Complete reliability and stress testing of various loads including dimmable LED lamps, lifecycle testing: accelerated testing of On/Off, dimming events corresponding to 3-5 years of product use. 
9. Finish our web interface for PC control of these devices. 
10. Finish our SAAS database to offer conditional control and intelligent information feedback. 
11. Test and Release API SDK for adding 3rd party devices 
12. Prepare Documentation for users and 3rd party hardware developers 
13. Staff online and phone support.

 

[electron]

I know for a fact they are working on an API so you can add support for these switches in your software.  Utz is a member here, but I guess this would make a great question for this Q&A

 

[Gatoreye]

As he mentioned - they are logging EVERYTHING so their cloud is accumulating tons of data.  Same question as all these other products...can I use it without their cloud.  They seem like they are going to aggregate more data than any other product like this.

 

[kaosweb]

As he mentioned - they are logging EVERYTHING so their cloud is accumulating tons of data.  Same question as all these other products...can I use it without their cloud.  They seem like they are going to aggregate more data than any other product like this.

 
Gator - I can't find it right now, but Utz has already confirmed that the cloud is only used when you are away from your network.  When on the network, everything is local.
 
I think these "cloud" only solutions are going to hurt themselves.  

 

[Gatoreye]

Gator - I can't find it right now, but Utz has already confirmed that the cloud is only used when you are away from your network.  When on the network, everything is local.
 
I think these "cloud" only solutions are going to hurt themselves.  

 
The difference is...can you disable the ability to send all that data to their cloud?  Sure you might connect locally when you are home but if the data is still being sent to their cloud, it really doesn't make much difference (at least from a privacy standpoint). Yes it will let you still use your system if you lose internet connection, and that's a plus, but when they mention logging EVERY keystroke to their apps that makes me a little nervous.
 
If I could completely disable the data being sent to their cloud and develop my own solution to accumulate the data locally and serve it directly from my own home automation/sql server, that's what I'd be looking for.

 

[kaosweb]

The privacy stance is a big one.  It will be interesting to see how they deal with it as well as all of the other companies.
 
*edited for typos...

 

[ChrisCicc]

Just FYI I was a conference this week and saw numerous cloud apps in the home automation and energy management space presented, and a common theme is they want to sell the data they collect to utilities and other groups...I agree with you Gatoreye, we log everything to SQL Server Compact, and it's available to the home owner only...

 

[Gatoreye]

Just FYI I was a conference this week and saw numerous cloud apps in the home automation and energy management space presented, and a common theme is they want to sell the data they collect to utilities and other groups...I agree with you Gatoreye, we log everything to SQL Server Compact, and it's available to the home owner only...

 
Exactly why I'd prefer not to use a cloud based solution if I could help it (although I certainly can't blame them for attempting to explore that business model).  Again when their video says they capture EVERYTHING, that should send a red flag up if you care about privacy. So I'd like to learn more about their plans for the data.
 
Chris - would there be an easy way via your SDK/API to write that data to my local SQL server installation?
 
AFAIK yours and the Almond+ are the only two new solutions so far that I know of that don't require their cloud. 

 

[ChrisCicc]

Exactly why I'd prefer not to use a cloud based solution if I could help it (although I certainly can't blame them for attempting to explore that business model).  Again when their video says they capture EVERYTHING, that should send a red flag up if you care about privacy. So I'd like to learn more about their plans for the data.
 
Chris - would there be an easy way via your SDK/API to write that data to my local SQL server installation?
 
AFAIK yours and the Almond+ are the only two new solutions so far that I know of that don't require their cloud. 

 
There's a big box store coming out with a major platform as we speak, and I shudder to think of the homeowners who will not realize the wide breadth of data they are capturing and sharing. That's all I'll say about that

Our system right now only writes to the SQL Compact DB, though it wouldn't be much of an issue for us to add an option to also write to a full SQL DB. The user could enter the connection sting, and run a script we provide to build out the tables in SQL Server. That said, it would also be pretty quick for you to run a query from SQL Server back to the Compact DB, and suck out the data. There's two tables with a handful of columns each, one for the event log, and one for the energy log. You could set up a scheduled task to run the query however often you like. We purposely did not password protect the DB for this reason, it's the users own data, after all...

 

[hobbes487]

AFAIK yours and the Almond+ are the only two new solutions so far that I know of that don't require their cloud. 

 
There are many home automation solutions that don't require any sort of cloud.  I'm pretty sure the big players like HomeSeer, Elve, etc don't, but I could be wrong.  Our system, Open Source Automation, logs everything locally for analytics purposes and never sends anything to the cloud.  I am very much in agreement about this new trend of cloud based home automation.  It seems like a huge privacy breach to me, especially considering the content of the data.  Do you want some cloud service to know when lights are going on and off and therefore knowing when you probably aren't home.  Not me.  I'm sure there will be plenty of consumers that won't think about and therefore won't be an issue, but I know I will be avoiding products like that.

 

[Gatoreye]

There are many home automation solutions that don't require any sort of cloud.  I'm pretty sure the big players like HomeSeer, Elve, etc don't, but I could be wrong.  Our system, Open Source Automation, logs everything locally for analytics purposes and never sends anything to the cloud.  I am very much in agreement about this new trend of cloud based home automation.  It seems like a huge privacy breach to me, especially considering the content of the data.  Do you want some cloud service to know when lights are going on and off and therefore knowing when you probably aren't home.  Not me.  I'm sure there will be plenty of consumers that won't think about and therefore won't be an issue, but I know I will be avoiding products like that.

 
I use HS so I know they don't use the cloud.  I was really referring to the whole new "Internet of Things" trend so really comparing the CastleOS to those is unfair because there is no hub.  To be more clear, it seems like the hardware solutions like Ube, Smartthings, etc are moving toward the cloud.  The privacy and data mining aspects should give people pause, but again I understand the business model of either/or wanting to charge people for cloud access or selling their data.

 

[Gatoreye]

Our system right now only writes to the SQL Compact DB, though it wouldn't be much of an issue for us to add an option to also write to a full SQL DB. The user could enter the connection sting, and run a script we provide to build out the tables in SQL Server. That said, it would also be pretty quick for you to run a query from SQL Server back to the Compact DB, and suck out the data. There's two tables with a handful of columns each, one for the event log, and one for the energy log. You could set up a scheduled task to run the query however often you like. We purposely did not password protect the DB for this reason, it's the users own data, after all...

 
Given the choice, I'd prefer (and probably most people) would like the realtime logging directly to my server. That way my triggers and scripts that would fire when the data changes would work properly in real time.  That really makes it the most extensible and open.

 

[utzbaldwin]

Hi all!
 
thanks for the chatter about ube!  I wanted to chime in on the API and Cloud comments.
 
API:
Yes, we are going to publish the API.   3rd party control systems will be able to send / receive commands & status directly to the device.  No Internet connection needed, no additional HW.  The dimmer transmits unsolicited data so no direct query is necessary, but you can prompt a query if you care to. (for instance the dimmer stores last 100 events).  Our firmware does some pretty cool stuff, but I know that you can help us make it even better, so please share your ideas with us!  
 
Cloud - Data - Privacy:
First and foremost if you don't use our mobile app to control your lights, NO account is established, thus no data is captured.  If you install ube dimmers and control them with a third party SW/HW, our cloud is out of the equation, UNLESS you ELECT to do both.
With that said,   Our backend is primarily designed to offer the intelligence most central controllers provide, i.e. conditionals, learned behaviors, schedules and alerts, etc. and of course to provide control from the LAN in a secure manor.  We are aware that capturing device status (for instance, so we can notify a user they left their closet light on while they are getting on a plane) is a great  feature, but for some is a privacy issue, and those who elect to use our app and cloud service will opt in for these types of features. Privacy laws prohibit any company from selling personal information and our privacy policy will comply to those laws, and we will inform users what type of data we collect and why, after all, there is some benefit to the consumer, for the anonymous aggregation of data (how does your energy consumption compare to others living in your area and / or similar size home).  Adding value directly back to the consumer should be the primary reason anyone aggregates data, not to build a business model on (whether it resides on the cloud or in their own home).
 
Utz