Q&A chat session with Ube

[utzbaldwin]

The difference is...can you disable the ability to send all that data to their cloud?  Sure you might connect locally when you are home but if the data is still being sent to their cloud, it really doesn't make much difference (at least from a privacy standpoint). Yes it will let you still use your system if you lose internet connection, and that's a plus, but when they mention logging EVERY keystroke to their apps that makes me a little nervous.
 
If I could completely disable the data being sent to their cloud and develop my own solution to accumulate the data locally and serve it directly from my own home automation/sql server, that's what I'd be looking for.

 
 

As he mentioned - they are logging EVERYTHING so their cloud is accumulating tons of data.  Same question as all these other products...can I use it without their cloud.  They seem like they are going to aggregate more data than any other product like this.

 
 

The difference is...can you disable the ability to send all that data to their cloud?  Sure you might connect locally when you are home but if the data is still being sent to their cloud, it really doesn't make much difference (at least from a privacy standpoint). Yes it will let you still use your system if you lose internet connection, and that's a plus, but when they mention logging EVERY keystroke to their apps that makes me a little nervous.
 
If I could completely disable the data being sent to their cloud and develop my own solution to accumulate the data locally and serve it directly from my own home automation/sql server, that's what I'd be looking for.

 
 

Exactly why I'd prefer not to use a cloud based solution if I could help it (although I certainly can't blame them for attempting to explore that business model).  Again when their video says they capture EVERYTHING, that should send a red flag up if you care about privacy. So I'd like to learn more about their plans for the data.
 
Chris - would there be an easy way via your SDK/API to write that data to my local SQL server installation?
 
AFAIK yours and the Almond+ are the only two new solutions so far that I know of that don't require their cloud. 

I use the term "Everything" in the DEMO video referring to device status and user interaction because we believe analytics are necessary to elevate the value of the connected home to its full potential today. This simply cannot happen without data aggregation.  Its one thing to know the TV left on.  As a parent of 2 teenagers it may be equally valuable to know who left it on or how long they were watching.  Getting a holistic view of your energy consumption requires the same, and actionable energy management cannot become a reality without it. These are our objectives... not big brother.  Privacy laws prohibit the sale of personal data.
If you are an integrator, or have installed systems for customers using a controller, you know that every event is (and has been) captured locally .  Over my 25+ years integrating systems, I wish had used that data to provide richer features and user experience for my customers by creating smarter systems.
 
Security and privacy MUST be taken into consideration.  I agree with every one who has expressed concern in this thread.  Every consumer should be made aware when ANY information about that individual is used (on their behalf or otherwise). In addition, the method of handling data both transactional (from personal account information to actual commands being sent over the WAN) as well as non-transactional (device status, etc) must be encrypted and secure.
 
 
Utz

 

[electron]

Utz, are you saying there is no official way of disabling the uploading of any data to the 'cloud'?

 

[utzbaldwin]

No Dan, the contrary. 
 
The only way the backend will gather any data, is if the user downloads our app, registers / creates an account, AND opts in.

 

[electron]

That's what I thought, just wanted to make sure there was no confusion about this question, thanks for confirming!

 

[sjbauer]

No Dan, the contrary. 
 
The only way the backend will gather any data, is if the user downloads our app, registers / creates an account, AND opts in.

 
Wouldn't one have to configure the dimmers themselves to not ship the data to the cloud rather than depend on the user downloading an app to their device?  Or does that app, via the local wifi, go out to the devices themselves and configure each one to send the data to the cloud?

 

[sjbauer]

I have a few questions concerning the feature sets of these devices:
 
1)  Do these devices provide instant status notification of changes?
      a)  If so, how does this get around the lutron's patent (z-wave issue -- removing association 1 ) on this?
2)  Can these devices function without a controller?  Can it run in a peer to peer type of setup like upb?
 
Steve

 

[Gatoreye]

Wouldn't one have to configure the dimmers themselves to not ship the data to the cloud rather than depend on the user downloading an app to their device?  Or does that app, via the local wifi, go out to the devices themselves and configure each one to send the data to the cloud?

 
Utz, thanks for the clarification. It's why it's important to flush these kinds of things out and why to me it's important to have that kind of information out there (especially on the Kickstarter page).  That definitely seems like a more exciting product then.  The question is then as Bauer asks...how do you configure your devices if they don't connect to the cloud?
 
Also, then are they broadcasting status changes or would we have to constantly poll them to get change information?

 

[az1324]

When shipped, they are probably in WiFi AP mode like Belkin Wemo. So you connect to that wireless network on a laptop/tablet/smartphone and the built-in web server (or software/app you have installed) allows you to configure them to connect to your network. Hopefully there is some batch functionality involved so that you don't need to repeat that process individually for each switch and can instead just select all or input their MAC addresses.

I believe it has been stated that they can work together directly in scenes without a central controller. Not sure whether this requires the cloud service to configure scenes or can be done with standalone app/software/webpage.

Other things:

It will be capable of leading & trailing edge dimming, not sure if it is using IGBT, GTO, IGCT, MOSFET
Supposedly there are RGB LEDs for status/feedback but I don't know if there are any photos/renders of this anywhere
I suggested that they add a 30 cent IR receiver because many users are looking for IR dimmers
I also suggested that they add an embedded script interpreter to each switch (eLua, Squirrel)

One other thing that is missed by most of these intelligent switches/dimmers is the ability to decouple the load from the local input. I believe UPB is the only one where this is possible?

 

[utzbaldwin]

Wouldn't one have to configure the dimmers themselves to not ship the data to the cloud rather than depend on the user downloading an app to their device?  Or does that app, via the local wifi, go out to the devices themselves and configure each one to send the data to the cloud?

Bauer,
Yes, you are correct.  there is interaction with the dimmer during setup.  The dimmer contains dns for our server. but it is a bit tricky because we are dealing with "transactional" and" non-transactional data" here is the process (as it stands today)
 
Upon downloading the app, user is prompted to set up account (opt in and explanation of the use and benefits of collected data will be displayed).
 
The app is then used for provisioning the dimmer.  if opted out, the app will strip the dns record for the ube server in the device.  the dimmer will still provide feedback locally but does not push data to our server(it has nowhere to go). This could  be reversed at any time.
 
** Please keep in mind, we have not yet determined how we could approach the separation of "transactional data" and "status" in this equation.  what i mean is it is an all or nothing situation for the specific scenario of 3rd party integration WITH no data collection on ube's server.   If the user opts out of sending information to our server, it is not also querying the server for commands generated by the registered UDID (smart phone running the app). which means WAN control of the lights FROM THE UBE APP will not work.(LAN control yes)  You could however take care of this through your 3rd party controller. 
 
3rd party integration WITH opt in would provide full parallel functionality.
 
help us make a killer product and keep the comments and questions coming! 

 

[utzbaldwin]

Greetings all,
 
I wanted to send thanks to everyone for engaging with us!  I am going to try to respond quickly to all questions and comments, but felt compelled to send a blanket statement out.
 
As you must be aware, we are not a $200M electronics conglomerate.  We are a small group of Austin geeks who want to change the world and believe we have some pretty good ideas.  We have invested thousands of hours and hundreds of thousands of our own dollars into getting here. (no paychecks for over a year...ouch!) We have built our first product and are extremely excited about it, and very happy to hear that many of you are as well.  Keep in mind, that we are currently in development of the final production version and don't have all the answers yet.  That is one of the reasons I am here. ube now has a few extra people on our product development team...you!  Just days after our Kickstarter Launch our supporters convinced us to add a great feature with a minor firmware update... that is awesome!
 
We will share as much information with you as we can from now, and through the end of the Kickstarter campaign (and of course throughout development)  to keep realistic expectations and your trust in us high.  
 
We have not tested every light source, every construction scenario, every router, every 3rd party controller.  But we have successfully demonstrated our proof of concept is ready for production and have great manufacturing partners. We hope you agree that this is a remarkable device with the potential for profound impact.
 
I may not be able to answer every question you throw at me today, but we will address and answer them as we have a reasonably definitive response.
 
Thanks so much for your interest in ube.  It is quite validating and rewarding to hear words of promise from this community.
 
Utz
 
BTW My phone is always on.. but a warning.. if you want to talk about the connected home, bring a sack lunch, because it will take a while.

 

[bpwwer]

Bauer,
Yes, you are correct.  there is interaction with the dimmer during setup.  The dimmer contains dns for our server. but it is a bit tricky because we are dealing with "transactional" and" non-transactional data" here is the process (as it stands today)
 
Upon downloading the app, user is prompted to set up account (opt in and explanation of the use and benefits of collected data will be displayed).
 
The app is then used for provisioning the dimmer.  if opted out, the app will strip the dns record for the ube server in the device.  the dimmer will still provide feedback locally but does not push data to our server(it has nowhere to go). This could  be reversed at any time.

 
Hi Utz,
 
Does this mean that there isn't a way to replace the dns entry for your server with a dns entry for a local server?  
 
If we can't replace the dns entry, what if anything, do we  lose by only getting local feedback?

 

[sjbauer]

Bauer,
Yes, you are correct.  there is interaction with the dimmer during setup.  The dimmer contains dns for our server. but it is a bit tricky because we are dealing with "transactional" and" non-transactional data" here is the process (as it stands today)
 
Upon downloading the app, user is prompted to set up account (opt in and explanation of the use and benefits of collected data will be displayed).
 
The app is then used for provisioning the dimmer.  if opted out, the app will strip the dns record for the ube server in the device.  the dimmer will still provide feedback locally but does not push data to our server(it has nowhere to go). This could  be reversed at any time.
 
** Please keep in mind, we have not yet determined how we could approach the separation of "transactional data" and "status" in this equation.  what i mean is it is an all or nothing situation for the specific scenario of 3rd party integration WITH no data collection on ube's server.   If the user opts out of sending information to our server, it is not also querying the server for commands generated by the registered UDID (smart phone running the app). which means WAN control of the lights FROM THE UBE APP will not work.(LAN control yes)  You could however take care of this through your 3rd party controller. 
 
3rd party integration WITH opt in would provide full parallel functionality.
 
help us make a killer product and keep the comments and questions coming! 

 
So if one opts out of the cloud does the switch provide instant status notification to the local LAN devices or does the unit have to be polled?

 

[utzbaldwin]

Hi Utz,
 
Does this mean that there isn't a way to replace the dns entry for your server with a dns entry for a local server?  
 
If we can't replace the dns entry, what if anything, do we  lose by only getting local feedback?

Perhaps too early to for a concrete answer on "replacing" the dns entry, (again this effects the privacy issue that started this thread.  because one could relpace the dns with another external server, collect data and ube could be liable for the privacy violation since the user "opted out" of ube collecting data but yet our product enabled it anyway).
But there would be no loss in local feedback.  
 
This is not a definitive answer.  if this community suggests a viable solution, we would certainly listen. 

 

[utzbaldwin]

So if one opts out of the cloud does the switch provide instant status notification to the local LAN devices or does the unit have to be polled?

You can query the device for status (it also logs the last 100 events) but it is not necessary. status is broadcasted.

 

[sjbauer]

When shipped, they are probably in WiFi AP mode like Belkin Wemo. So you connect to that wireless network on a laptop/tablet/smartphone and the built-in web server (or software/app you have installed) allows you to configure them to connect to your network. Hopefully there is some batch functionality involved so that you don't need to repeat that process individually for each switch and can instead just select all or input their MAC addresses.

I believe it has been stated that they can work together directly in scenes without a central controller. Not sure whether this requires the cloud service to configure scenes or can be done with standalone app/software/webpage.

 

Are you sure about the scenes?  On the webpage they talk about scenes using the from the app and not being triggered from the switch it self.
 
Steve