Question on Access Control

[dkulesza]

I've recently become hooked on the home automation / home security / etc. bug and am looking to put in place an access control system.
 
I have an ELK M1 currently for home security and I've picked up a Software House iStar Pro for access control.  
 
I must not have read the manuals too well before purchasing, because it appears the iStar Pro requires a CCURE / server setup to operate.  If that is the case, I really need to find another platform that could work standalone.
 
Anyone have thoughts?  I'm going to run electric strikes to all doors, proximity readers, etc.  Would like a unit that is flexible/programmable (schedules, guest) with an API that I could tie in my ELK or home automation system to.
 
 

 

[Del91574]

I have CCure 9000 2.3 and an unlimited license but it expires 90 days after install.
 
If you're good with SQL and VM's it's pretty easy to keep going once you have your configuration. It's doubtful you'd need to pull a journal or reporting.
 
The M1 will do all of this, but it's not as straightforward to do the finer items that are more suited to an ACS platform.
 
You could also look into a limited site server running CCure 9000 or an old license/sentinel for CCure 800.
 
Basically, barring the 3rd party hardware integration to HO products, SWH is a more robust platform than the M1 and can do everything the M1 can and more.

 

[dkulesza]

Combine a free weekend, necessity, and reverse engineering skill set - I've overcome my initial hurdle......
 
Spending time with CCURE this weekend, I definitely see the robust capabilities it provides.  Next step is to write an Elk M1 integration with CCURE.  Two ways of doing so:  General Purpose Interface or a custom developed integration.  I'm going to start with the GPI, but if it doesn't give me the robustness I'm looking for - I'll write my own driver.  In the end, my ELK M1 may just end up being sensor hardware for CCURE to take action on.
 
CCURE is very robust, but I wish it had more automation capabilities.  You can write some "rules", but doesn't seem that powerful.  I also can't figure out how to do something basic such as:  Creating one time PIN/Card Access.  As far as I can tell, no way to have a card access event take action on a personnel object.  
 
More to come

 

[Del91574]

Honestly, there isn't nothing that can't be done in CCure that the Elk can do besides direct integration to consumer level hardware.
 
I don't know which version you have, either 800 or 9000 or what revision, but CCure will smoke what an M1 can do, in addition to analog inputs/outputs (less the total driven off a single ACM or 2 ACM's for an Istar pro/16) via I8 and R8's or RM's, (64 of each type off each ACM, so 128 off a single Istar/16 and 32 on board inputs, it's easily approaching what the M1 offers)
 
The import/export would basically cover the integration with 3rd party. You'd probably have to get the exported data out via serial to the M1 then build rules in the M1.
 
You need to build events and then how you arm/disarm them and time based actions, it's all there. Full boolean logic once you understand how to drive the events and then cover your if/and/then rules.
 
I run multiple sites with CCure 9000, one with over 200 Istars and 70K cardholders and a few others running enterprise SAS architecture.
 
A single KP reader, events, intrusion zones and the like, it'll blow away a residential/small commercial burglar panel. As I said, the only shortfall (if you call it that) would be integration to consumer level Zigbee, Zwave or lighting hardware, but with enough dry contacts or the same, it's doable.

 

[dkulesza]

I'm running 2.20 CCure9000 Patch#5. 
 
Regarding integration - looking for more real time/bidirecitonal - similar to the Bosch/DSC alarm integration (or just native iStar).  Goal would be CCURE interfacing with Elk M1 no different than any other hardware you can plugin (and then leverage for more advanced CCURE functions).  May try and grab a few input/output boards to see what native functionality the intrusion zones bring. 
 
I did see the "full boolean" logic capabilities in the manual.  Again, not seeing anyway how to interact with personell objects.  Trying to determine how to do a simple one-time pin access.  Add personnel with a card credential (my HID keypad sends keypad data as 26 wiegand) and when it's used - disable usage again.  I'm sure its there, but not seeing the CCURE logic in how to do it.  I can understand why it's not readily available - this is a commercial system and one-time pin seems to be more of a residential use case.
 
This also brings up my second question of how CHUID Pin Only works when applied to a card format.  Didn't work as expected.  Again, I'm sure there is some super secret handshake that authorized installers know, but not readily apparent to me. 
 
I will say they have excellent documentation.  I'm new to access conrol concepts, their software, but I've already managed to get it all running, create custom card formats, build out an iStar Pro ACM, inputs, outputs, etc.  Very intuitive/logical software.  I'm very impressed with it and definitely feel it's a well designed enterprise solution.
 
10000% overkill for my residential use case, but that's what makes this hobby fun.

 

[Del91574]

I'll put it this way. To get certified on the hardware/software, it's a 5 day class alone. Advanced integration is another 5 day class. End user is another 5 days. Read that for what it's worth for you. I've been working on it (and almost every other vendor's access control product) for years and I still have difficulty building report queries in CCure. I've been using 9000 since it really came out and then up to 2.30R2 (2.4 is still too new for many of our sites)
 
There's ways to do everything you mention, relatively easily. You need to determine whether or not you're using the PIN as a weigand card format or keypad command, then whether or not keypad commands are allowed or how you restrict them from there. Expiration is pretty easy.
 
CHUID is Cardholder Unique ID. Just means that it can't be duplicated in the system vs. cardholder only, format, etc. If you're not going to have any volume of users, I'd go cardholder only and not worry about CHUID.
 
Single usage would be driven via an event. Can't remember if cardholder noticed is 2.20 or 2.30. You could also drive the single use via antipassback, timed or hard.
 
I can't comment as far as what sort of integration you're looking for, but basically, an Istar can eliminate a conventional burg panel and do 100X more things and then some. You also have to remember some actions require an interface or monitoring driven event, which in your case would essentially be a timed item.
 
You don't need I8's to build IZ's. You can do all of that off the basic Istar and door construction, per se.